Rapture Ready

[Rabbi Kanievsky to Mishkoltz Rabbi: “All That Can Be Done is to Wait for Messiah” by Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz Breaking Israel News | Israel Latest News, Israel Prophecy News] "“’Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,’ says the LORD of hosts. But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears?” Malachi 3:1 (The Israel Bible™)

Last Saturday night, Rabbi Shalom Berger, the spiritual leader of the Mishkoltz sect of Hassidic Orthodox Jews, paid a visit to Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the leading rabbis of this generation.

A large crowd gathered to witness the auspicious meeting of these two great Torah authorities. Rabbi Berger brought a copy of his book on the section of the Talmud (Oral Law) dealing with Shabbat as a gift for Rabbi Kanievsky, who studied a few pages and encouraged him to write more books of this kind.

Rabbi Berger then asked Rabbi Kanievsky if it is true that this year is especially auspicious for the coming of the Messiah.

Rabbi Kanievsky answered without hesitation. “Of course, the year, 5776, in Hebrew letters (תשע”ו‎) spells ‘salvation’ (תשוע)...” Full text: Rabbi Kanievsky to Mishkoltz Rabbi: “All That Can Be Done is to Wait for Messiah” Re 1:7

Related:

Most of Today's Churches are Silent on Bible Prophecy

Planet X

Crucible View Post

The 'Rapture' is mostly new age wishful thinking...

Re 3:10 KJV

"Rapture, the—translation of saved at Christ’s return. Not all will sleep (1 Cor. 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:15, 17), Dead in Christ will rise (1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 4:13, 14, 16), Living to be transformed (1 Cor. 15:51–53), Saints caught up (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 519). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

And how does that refer to a 'rapture'?

Jn 8:37

musterion View Post

...They're becoming increasingly convinced that they must endure unto the end to be saved, and if they don't they'll be lost.

Perhaps they will (Dan 7:21).
1 Co 15:26  

The church is the church. Tribulation saints are tribulation saints----two different groups.

If you'd like to be in the former group, repent greasy gracers (Jud 4).

Birth pangs are painful. They point to his second coming. 

musterion View Post

What does "greasy grace" mean.  No links, what is your definition of that term, in one or two sentences.

Hypergrace, what John Wesley called the false convert--one who signs a card, walks down an isle, converts at age 8--lives like the devil his whole life and thinks he's going to heaven.

How much oil do you need in your lamp to go in the rapture?

Queue jeopardy theme (right click, open).

musterion View Post

That is a problem, especially if the power of God unto salvation is not being preached...

There is Power in the Blood Matt. 26:28

Crucible View Post

It is heresy, plain and simple.  Revelations [sic] speaks upon persecuted Christians rising as Jesus did after he was martyred.

Revelation no "s" (Jas 3:1).  

It's a series of revelations.

The Book is Revelation. If you don't know that, you probably shouldn't be teaching eschatology.

The fact that you even have to go there to make yourself appear to be more knowledgeable ...

Ad hominem Eph 4:14, 1 Co 1:27 

One more mission. 1 Cor. 9:16

B.I.B.L.E. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

SaulToPaul View Post

We have no mandate whatsoever to clean up this earth, or this evil world system.

We are supposed to stare at the sky (Ro 10:14). It's all about you (Lk 19:13).

Lk 12:37, Jn 9:4

Takin' Care Of Business ~ Bachman-Turner Overdrive

SaulToPaul View Post

You're projecting again.

J.O.Y. Goes in the rapture. Jesus Others You 2 Tim. 3:2, Phil. 2:21

Related:

Lordship  

The Lord is going to get us there safely (2 Co 12:9).

Airplane!

musterion View Post

[Rejects Lordship] Like talking to a robot.

Hopefully you have an Abraham in the family (Ge 18:25-26, Jas 5:16).

See:

Lordship

Also see:

Be Like Abraham

Crucible View Post

Rapture theory did not exist anywhere in historical eschatology.  It is an invention of late.

ἁρπάζω ‘to seize, to snatch away, to take away.’ "...[T]he English "rapture" is a close derivative of the Latin word for "snatch [away]" (viz., rapere) which was used in the Latin Vulgate translation of the New Testament..." Full text: The "Rapture" or The "Snatching Away"


“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven (Mt 7:21, emphasis mine).


Scroll's gonna open shortly (Re 5-8)...

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you (Mt 28:19–20, emphasis mine).

Danoh View Post

Including...Matthew 23:1

Yep.

Ready to Go ~ Republica

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works (Mt 23:1-3, emphasis mine).
Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Pe 2:5). You're not? Jud 4 Don't think you'll be going in the rapture greasy gracer (Lk 17:26).

Crucible View Post

There is no 'rapture'...Revelation 2:10




See:

Re 2:9-10 McGee

Arthur Brain View Post

I think SD's already left the planet so there's some proof for the 'rapture'...

Do you want me to be your governor? Is 32:1, 1 Cor. 6:2; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26, 27; 3:21

See:

The Magnificence of Mercy by Adrian Rogers

Danoh View Post
[To another member] You have been watching too much Star Trek...



The second coming is different. The rapture will already have occurred.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left [Matt. 24:40–41].

"I can hear someone saying to me, “Well, preacher, you have finally painted yourself into a corner. You said the church and the Rapture are not in the Olivet Discourse, but here they are. Two shall be in the field; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.”

Well, my friend, He still is not talking about the Rapture. After all, what is our Lord talking about here? “As the days of Noe were.” Who was taken away in the days of Noah? “They knew not until the flood came, and took them all away.” They perished in the Flood. This is not referring to the Rapture when the church will be taken out of the world. Rather, this pictures the removing from the earth by judgment those who are not going to enter the millennial Kingdom." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28) (electronic ed., Vol. 35, p. 146). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Danoh View Post

...[H]ow did McGee arrive at that...

The church has already been raptured. Those who took the mark are not going into the Millennium.

The believer is taken up with the Lord.  

 

1 Thess 4:16-17, Eph 1:10, 2 Thess 2:1, Heb 12:22-24





Book of remembrance--rapture (Mal 3:16). Book of Life--heaven (Re 20:15).

DAN P View Post

...[W]hy do you post a verse and not tell what it means and your point?

The Feast of Trumpets is shrouded in a mystery. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. The moon was concealed. The Jews needed two witnesses to attest to the fact that they'd seen a sliver of the moon. No one knew the day or the hour.  

Nick M View Post

How many good works are needed to offset the evil you have committed?

Eph 2:8-9

Related:

Lordship

Interplanner View Post

[Nick M post] Ok, now we are getting into the area that this was never supposed to go...

These greasy gracers don't discuss: God's holiness, man's need for repentance, surrendering to God's will, etc.

A chicken says to the pig, let's give the master an egg and bacon sandwich this morning. The pig says, "That's easy for you to say. You're just giving him an egg." Schwarzentraub.

Ask these hypergracers what their faith has cost them.

Related:

Lordship

Interplanner View Post

We are not here to watch for a rapture. We are awaiting Christ. 

He meets us in the air (1 Thess 4:17). What's the difference? Lk 21:34, 1 Thess 5:4, Am 3:7

It's not the same thing. It is not healthy to give up on the battle that is before us in this life.

We eagerly look forward to his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).  Do you?  Or, do you prefer this world? 1 Jn 2:15 I hope you eagerly look forward to his appearing.  If you don't--red flag!

steko View Post

So, you disagree with Paul that we should comfort one another with these words:  1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Pre-trib is comforting. Mid-trib, post-trib, (Jesus a wife-beater)--that's not comforting.

Vid: Your tears are as unique (and beautiful) as snowflakes Eccl 3:4, Ps 56:8, 126:5, Re 21:4

In a Big Country ~ Big Country

Most people who are obsessed with the rapture (mentioned on a few times...)...

Start with Exodus--and all over the rest of scripture from there for those with spiritual eyes and ears.

...are escapist...

That's the plan (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). You lovin' this world and the things in it? 1 Jn 2:15

...and think Christian faith is escapist.

Escape Reward for faithfulness Re 2:23

...Go spend a week at PragerU.com...

Prager wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on his back parts.

...and get involved in actually stopping dictatorial government...

The bible makes it clear--this world will get worse before it gets better. Part of making it better is removing the infestation which inhabits it (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10, Mt 24:41). Even Prager can understand that. He was pro-flood.

...[Y]ou don't have any credibility.

Poisoning the well Eph 4:14

To await Christ is not the same as to escape our job here.

Who's not working? Mt 24:46

To work on our job here is not "preferring this world".
Don't hate us because we're going in the rapture (1 Cor. 15:51–53). You, too, could love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).

Where is the appetite to counter the enemies of freedom and liberty now?

What do you think we've been doing all this time? Lk 19:13, Jn 8:36, 2 Thess. 2:7, 8 Explain your displeasure with those who love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).

Interplanner View Post

Good for you if you have. Hope you're buying ticket gifts to Hilary's America and sending the PragerU link around to friends and contacts.
Why would I do that--so I can hold their hands on their way to hell? 1 Co 6:9-10. Shall I start a new PU thread? Prager thinks he’s a good man (Ro 3:12). Prager thinks he’s done good things for the world (Ro 1:32). What Prager really does during his happenstance hour and male/female hour is try to help people feel cozy in their sin. Prager loves his dirty diapers and he hopes you're enjoying yours, too (Is 61:10, Col 3:9).

"Sometimes we must comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." ~ David Jeremiah

…to listen to most modern Christians talk, you'd think the neat thing was the route--the transport--the dematerialization. Not Christ himself.
Who wouldn't love a good Six Flags ride into the air without a seatbelt? 1 Thess. 4:16, 17 Not so filled with love at the thought of his appearing? 2 Ti 4:8, Heb 10:27

"It is a huge mistake to take God's gifts and rob him of his glory" -- Luther

We love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8). We live to glorify him. You're Lot's wife too in love with Sodom.

Danoh View Post

You bookworm, you.

What sort of bride doesn't want her bridegroom to ever show up?

Interplanner View Post

You are otherworldly, and I don't see that in true Christian faith.

Maybe you've never met a Christian (Jas 4:4).

[Prager] Only this week did he explain once again that parent that does not teach kids they have to battle themselves (the evil in themselves, not the 'environment') is worthless.

He can't control himself (Mt 5:28). He's a wave the white flag kind of guy (2 Pe 1:6).

...the Christian mission is here to see the world turned upside down...

No it's not (Mk 16:15).

"We give out the word of God. What men do with it is their business." ~ J. Vernon McGee

You have decided to take one minor aspect of the 2nd coming and distort the very fiber of the thing.

The rapture is not the Second Coming. The rapture occurs prior to his Second Coming.

All those who await the 2nd coming, who want to see Christ, have a deep yearning for all society to be righteous and self-controlled as well.

That will come soon enough.  What is more important is to be prepared to be worthy to escape all these things which are coming on the earth (Lk 21:36).

Re: Prager and Mt 5:28 I don't think you've caught what Prager says there. He means that men have that inclination; Christ said this, not that anything can be done about it, but to define that all people are adulterous. "Tidy" remarriage arrangements by the Pharisees do not solve it. Women are often emotionally adulterous, too.

Prager has no interest in scrubbing himself up (Jn 15:3).
There is no such things as remarriage until one's spouse is dead (Rom. 7:2, 3). The word you are looking for is adultery (Heb. 13:4). But, this is Sodom aka America. We make it up as we go along.

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper by John Piper

I think your understanding of both people is on the level of sound-bytes...

"Repetition is the mother of pedagogy." ~ Dennis Prager

Prager has said many times how disgusting adultery and porn are; or addiction in general.

He discards wives as one might discard an orange peel after having squeezed all the juice out (Rogers).  Prager is a pragmatist.

Re: turning the world upside down.  OK, they don't wake up trying to do that each day.

You're awfully concerned with our Day Timers. You could always get off your blessed assurance and do your own kingdom work. Mk 9:41, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Mt 13:7, Jud 1:9

...[T]here are secular versions of simply escaping everything in our culture...

Discussion about the rapture disturbs you. Maybe that's because you're not going in it (Lk 21:36). Maybe you're a foolish virgin with no oil in your lamp.

...[W]hich is dangerous thinking...

Dangerous encouraging 1 Thess 4:18

...it is dangerous morally and theologically.

For you, the bible is dangerous. For us it's a bright day (Ps 37:6). There are a lot of caterpillars out there pretending to be butterflies.

There are no long lists of geo-political events that need to take place for the 2nd coming and day of judgment to take place.

The Second Coming occurs after the rapture.  

You have mistakenly used Lk 21 here and has no basis.

Jn 8:37

Lazy afternoon View Post

[The rapture is not the Second Coming. The rapture occurs prior to his Second Coming.] No.  Christ returns to raise the saints and every eye sees Him coming.

I suppose you are responding to me since you quote me (without a link [Eph 4:14]).

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen [Rev. 1:7].

"“Behold, he cometh with clouds” denotes the personal and physical coming of Christ.

“And every eye shall see him” reveals that His coming will be a physical and bodily appearance, an appeal to the eye–gate. As far as we know, when Christ takes the church out of the world at the Rapture, He doesn’t appear to everyone. I don’t believe in a secret rapture as some folk have attempted to describe it, but at the time of the Rapture He does not come to the earth. Believers are to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. If Christ will be coming to the earth at that time, there is no point in being caught up in the air. Therefore, this is not the Rapture which is being described in this verse. This is His return to the earth as King.

“Every eye shall see him.” The emphasis in the Book of Revelation is upon His coming to this earth to establish His Kingdom.

“All kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.” Probably a better translation is this: “All the tribes of the earth shall beat their breasts because of him.” This is going to be the reaction of all Christ–rejectors. The world will not want to see Him.

“Even so, Amen” means “Yea, faithful.” He is going to do it, my friend. He is not going to change His mind about it. He is faithful." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible Commentary: The Prophecy (Revelation 1-5) (electronic ed., Vol. 58, p. 43). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

Interplanner View Post

[Rapture, Second Coming] It all happens at once...

Jas 3:1

Lazy afternoon View Post

You attempt to defame a son of God...

Choleric put you on Satan, Inc. Eph 4:14, 5:11

Interplanner View Post

This is a non-topic biblically...




“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Lk 21:34–36

That whole passage especially is about the destruction of Jerusalem...




"Lk 21:34 that Day. I.e., the day of His return. See note on Matt. 24:37. When Christ mentions His return, he invariably enjoins watchfulness (cf. 12:37–40; Matt. 25:13; Mark 13:33–37)...

...Mt 24:37 as the days of Noah were. Jesus’ emphasis here is not so much on the extreme wickedness of Noah’s day (Gen. 6:5), but on the people’s preoccupation with mundane matters of everyday life (“eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage”—v. 38), when judgment fell suddenly. They had received warnings, in the form of Noah’s preaching (2 Pet. 2:5)—and the ark itself, which was a testimony to the judgment that was to come. But they were unconcerned about such matters and therefore were swept away unexpectedly in the midst of their daily activities.

24:40, 41 one will be taken. I.e., taken in judgment (cf. v. 39) just as in Noah’s day (“took them”; v. 39). This is clearly not a reference to the catching away of believers described in 1 Thess. 4:16, 17.

24:43 the thief. As no one knows what hour the thief will come, no one knows the hour of the Lord’s return or the Day of the Lord that accompanies His coming (cf. 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Pet. 3:10). But the believer is to be ready at all times." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Also see:

What do partial preterists believe?

What is the preterist view of the end times?

...(seeing it did not happen) we need 2 Peter 3

You can thank him for his longsuffering.

SECTION OUTLINE THREE (2 PETER 3)
Peter describes three “worlds.”

I. THE ANCIENT WORLD (3:5b–6): This world was destroyed by the great Flood in the days of Noah.

II. THE PRESENT WORLD (3:1–5a, 7–12, 14–18)
A. The documents (3:1–2): Peter has written both his epistles admonishing his readers to remember the great truths.
1. The truths spoken by the Old Testament prophets (3:1–2a)
2. The truths spoken by the New Testament apostles (3:2c)
3. The truths spoken by the Savior himself (3:2b)
B. The derision (3:3–5a): Peter warns that scoffers will appear during the last days.
1. They will falsify the facts concerning the future fire judgment (3:3–4): They will say, “Jesus promised to come back, did he? Then where is he?”
2. They will deliberately forget the facts concerning the past flood judgment (3:5a).
C. The destruction (3:7, 10, 12b)
1. The fact of this destruction (3:7): The same God who once sent the flood will one day send fire.
2. The fury of this destruction (3:10, 12b): It will utterly consume both earthly and heavenly elements.
D. The delay (3:8–9)
1. The timelessness of God (3:8): A day to him is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.
2. The tenderness of God (3:9): He is patient, not wanting anyone to perish.
E. The dedication (3:11–12a, 14–18): In light of all this, two biblical writers admonish believers to live godly and holy lives.
1. Peter’s exhortation (3:11–12a, 14, 17–18): Grow in favor with the Lord.
2. Paul’s exhortation (3:15–16): The Lord is waiting to return so that more people will have time to be saved.

III. THE NEW WORLD (3:13): This future earth will become the home of universal righteousness
Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (2 Pe 3). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Interplanner View Post

...Nothing, nada, zip about events in Israel that 'need' to happen so that the 2nd coming can proceed.

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14

See:

What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Lazy afternoon View Post

The rapture occurs at the second coming.

I've got a door knob more biblically literate than you (2 Pe 2:1).

Lazy afternoon View Post

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation [Heb. 9:28].

"This is not speaking of the Rapture, but of His coming as sovereign to judge the earth. (However, believers will not come into judgment.) When He appears the second time it will not be to settle the sin question. He is not going to come the next time to walk around the Sea of Galilee or through the streets of Jerusalem to see what men will do with His sacrifice. He is coming in judgment.

Therefore today we can put it very simply: there is just one of two places for your sin—either your sin is on you, or it is on Christ. If you have not accepted the sacrifice of Christ, if you are not trusting Him as your redeemer, if He is no authority to you, then there is nothing ahead of you but the judgment of the Great White Throne. No one who appears there is going to be saved, but everyone will be given a fair chance to present their works and discover that God was right all along. And I have news for you: God is always right. So today if your sin is on you, there is nothing that can remove it but the death of Christ.

When Christ comes the next time it will be “without sin unto salvation”—that is, He will complete salvation at that time. Our salvation is in three tenses: I have been saved; I am being saved; I shall be saved. “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). Now that is going to be a great day. It is going to be a great day for Vernon McGee, so don’t you be dissatisfied with me, will you not? God is not through with me.

Down in Mississippi a dear little lady wearing a sunbonnet got up in a testimony meeting under the brush arbor and said, “Most Christians ought to have written on their backs, ‘This is not the best that the grace of God can do.’” Well, that should be written on the backs of all Christians. God is not through with any of us. Thank God for that! He is going to appear the second time without sin unto salvation—He is going to deliver us. But, my friend, He will not come to settle the sin question for anyone who has not accepted Him—to them He is coming as judge." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Hebrews 8-13) (electronic ed., Vol. 52, p. 46). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Lazy afternoon View Post

[Heb 9:28 J. Vernon McGee] Made up.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

See:

Heb 9:27-28 Guthrie

[Pre tribbers] ...[T]hey follow one another and never get a clear word from Christ...

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

Mt 24:44

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

One Year Anniversary 'Peace and Safety'

...Netanyahu: Looking Forward To Working With Trump On Twin Interests Of Peace, Security 1 Thess 5:3

What Does "Unclean" Mean?

Sesame Street Rubber Ducky Song

Interplanner View Post

It is the Levitical sense. Believers have been cleansed in Christ.

Depends on what the meaning of believer is (Re 3:17).

Related:

Lordship

Those who believe Heb 8-10.

Those people (Mt 7:22-23).

Love without holiness is mere sentiment (1 Jn 3:9).

Are You Saved? Ps. 24:4

”Slider you stink.” ~ Maverick



So...you aren't talking about 'unclean' after all.

Jn 3:8


Mk 13:35




Ancient Secret of Daniel’s 70 Weeks Predicts End of Days Will Come This Year Re 1:7

An Auspicious 9-Minute Prayer Window Opens for First and Last Time in 28 Years Ps 145:18

Interplanner View Post

If we have learned anything from the last 50 years of pop eschatology, it is that date-setters are delusional.

Am 3:7


Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle?
Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
He who walks uprightly,
And works righteousness,
And speaks the truth in his heart;
He who does not backbite with his tongue,
Nor does evil to his neighbor,
Nor does he take up a reproach against his friend;
In whose eyes a vile person is despised,
But he honors those who fear the Lord;
He who swears to his own hurt and does not change;
He who does not put out his money at usury,
Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent.

He who does these things shall never be moved. Ps 15:1–5

SaulToPaul View Post

Too bad you are not eligible to dwell in the holy hill of Zion...none of us are.

Ditch the leisure suit. Get yourself a robe of righteousness (Is. 61:10).

See:

Jesus Only  by J. Vernon McGee


As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

 


SaulToPaul View Post



Mal 4:4-6, Mt 24:14

Related:

Lordship




SaulToPaul View Post

  [Works]

See:

Jas 2:17-18 McGee


Related:

Lordship


SaulToPaul View Post

[Trust]

Matt. 12:17–21

Related:

Lordship


SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] Too bad you are not eligible to dwell in the holy hill of Zion...none of us are.

Lazy afternoon View Post

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] You can only speak for yourself.

We don't know another's heart (1 Co 4:5). We can get an idea about who they are by the fruits that they produce: A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them (Mt 7:18–20).

SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] A heretic list is funny thing for an unsaved self righteous person to publish!

Eph 5:11

Related:

Lordship

SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ]


Eph 4:14

Related:

Lordship


SaulToPaul View Post

Changing quotes is against TOL rules.

Proof please (Eph 4:14).

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

I think the false accuser is going to be taking a nice TOL vacation soon...

Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

[Receive warning for 'provoking SaulToPaul'] Ro 14:4, Ps 105:15

Crucible View Post

Before the 17th century there was no concept of a rapture.

And before that there was. 1 Thess. 4:16, 17

Crucible View Post

[1 Thess. 4:16, 17] There's not a single verse in scripture that actually shows your rapture.

Jn 8:37

Daniel1769 View Post

...Rapture after the Tribulation...

Lk 21:36, Re 3:10

Crucible View Post

[Rapture]...[I]t only exists in your imagination...

1 Cor. 15:51–53

northwye View Post

...Rapture cultists say that Christ can come at any time.
Better check your oil (Matt. 25:1–13).

john w View Post

Catholic serpent dove-it is the Lord Jesus Christ...

This from a guy who rejects Lordship? 2 Pe 2:1

john w View Post
[Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, Rejection of Lordship] Yes...



I am warned, removed from a conversation and/or banned when I respond to you (2 Pe 2:1).

Sorry to 'provoke' you.

john w View Post

[Here for now (Jb 38:19)] Oh.




"Section Outline Twelve (Revelation 12)
John sees an interplay between a woman and a dragon, symbolizing the nation of Israel and Satan.


I. SATAN’S FORMER HATRED FOR GOD AND HIS PEOPLE (12:1–5)
A. His sin at the beginning (12:3–4): This seems to refer to his original fall.
B. His sin at Bethlehem (12; 1–2, 4–5)
1. Satan’s persecution of God’s nation (12:1–2)
2. Satan’s persecution of God’s Son (12:4b, 5b)
a. The birth of Jesus (12:4a, 5a)
b. The ascension of Jesus (12:5c)


II. SATAN’S FUTURE HATRED FOR GOD AND HIS PEOPLE (12:6–18)
A. The woman in the wilderness (12:6, 13–18): The woman here is the nation of Israel.
1. Israel will be persecuted by Satan during the Great Tribulation (12:13, 15, 17–18).
2. Israel will be protected by God during the Great Tribulation (12:6, 14, 16).
B. The war in the heavens (12:7–12): Some believe this will occur in the middle of the Great Tribulation.
1. The results (12:7–9)
a. The defeat of Satan (12:7–8): Michael the archangel will defeat him.
b. The dismissal of Satan (12:9) : He will be cast down to earth.
2. The reaction (12:10–12)
a. Satan will be filled with wrath (12:10b, 12c).
b. Saints will be filled with joy (12:10a, 11–12a).
c. Sinners will be filled with fear (12:12b)" Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Related:

Revelation 12 Sign

Cornerstone Church Nashville Christmas Presentation: A Critique Christopher E. Hamrick

Daniel1769 View Post

[Lk 21:36, Re 3:10] Nothing there says the rapture is before the tribulation.

If you think you're not going in the rapture you're probably right (Re 2:22).

But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the sons of Levi,
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness. Mal 3:2–3

everready View Post

The rapture debacle in a nutshell...Jesuit End Times Antichrist Deception...

When we're all gone no we haven't been abducted by aliens. 1 Thess. 4:16, 17

Related:

Believe the Lie

john w View Post

[Re 12 Sign] Translated: Spam, throw out a bunch of unrelated verses...

Jn 8:37
As a reminder john w is number 58 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

[Re 12 sign] The poor lost works salvationist...

Strawman Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

[Jb 38:19, Re 12 sign] Still provoking, despite getting a warning. I believe your TOL days are getting short.

Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

[Banned:  :banned:provoking other membersImage] "Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, 13:7, 25:8, 40, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Jud 1:9

Reveal Key To Going In The Rapture Pt. 1 1 Thess. 4:15, 17

Tt 2:13  

Is the New Star Really a Sign of a Messiah for Israel? Rev. 22:16


Flashback:

Dreams & Visions: Natan

Related:

What are the strengths and weaknesses of the midtribulational view of the rapture (midtribulationism)?


Lk 12:35 HCSB



1 Pe 1:13


Tt 2:13 

Song Of Solomon Contains An Amazing Reference To The Pretribulation Rapture As Being In Springtime Lk 21:28
 

Sower View Post

How could the saints see the abomination of desolation, during the tribulation, and/or flee Judea if they were raptured Pre-Trib?

Those who will not take the mark of the beast--tribulation saints. Don't confuse the church (the bride) with tribulation saints.

Serpentdove, Jesus was talking to the disciples, the church (the bride), when He said...Take heed that no man deceive you...Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill some of you...When ye see the abomination of desolation...let them which be in Judea flee to the mountains...For then shall be great tribulation...per Matthew 24:4-26, was He not?

He's speaking about believers of the first resurrection. The church and the tribulation saints are not the same thing. The church will forever be known as the church--the bride of Christ. Tribulation saints will forever be known as tribulation saints--those that came out of the Great Tribulation--two different people groups. I'd recommended being in the former rather than the latter.

Sower View Post

Serpentdove, the believers in the "first resurrection" were killed/martyred...

I'm still alive. :idunno: I'll be in the first resurrection.

...during the great tribulation per Revelation 20:4,6, what's the difference?

Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raise to life (OT saints, the church [the bride] and tribulation saints). Those raised in the second resurrection are raised for judgment at the Great White Throne.

The fact that they preferred darkness over light implies they make a conscious choice between two recognized, and at least partly understood, alternatives.

Everyone has a choice.  We tasted and saw that the Lord is good (Ps 34:8).  They chose a different path.

Limey_Bob. View Post
Don't you think that you could be merely reading your own biases and presuppositions into the text of a highly poetic book?...

I'm not the author of the article.



Come away ~ Norah Jones

Sower View Post

...[T]here is no Pre-Trib rapture...

Perhaps for you (Re 2:22). :idunno:Maybe you'll do better without your head. :juggle:

Yogi View Post
I would like to point out how Jesus explained it; Matt.13:28, 29- Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. If anything, He is saying that summer may be the real focus....

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees (Lk 21:29b NKJV, emphasis mine).

chtek View Post

Pretty amazing stuff, serpentdove.  I think that you could do equally as well by reading a Harleguin Romance.

I don't read perv' books (Pr 4:23).

I do not agree with your theory…...

I'm not the author of the article.

Sower View Post

Are you aware, the rapture/coming of Christ "as a thief"...

To the unbeliever and make-believer--not to us (1 Thess 5:4). :dizzy:

Satire: "Jesus Not Coming Back By The Looks Of It" Admits Vatican Cardinal 2 Co 2:11, 11:14 

Sower View Post

...[T]here is no Pre-trib rapture...
For you--no doubt (Re 2:22). For the wise virgins prepared (Matt. 25:1–13) :straight:--we're outta here (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). :rapture:

See:

Month of Judah

[No] ...Pre-trib rapture...

If you've been serving him, you'll be spared. If you haven't you will go into The Great Tribulation.

See:

Alpha & Omega/Strength of the Covenant

Jester View Post

[Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raise to life (OT saints, the church [the bride] and tribulation saints). Those raised in the second resurrection are raised for judgment at the Great White Throne.] Incorrect. Nothing in the Bible that states that the first resurrection have to do anything with [sic] the rapture or the resurrection of the Saints at any moment. Rather it is the born again. Please read Revelation 20:4 carefully...

See:

Re 20:4 McGee, MacArthur

The Elite are Building Luxury Bunkers Re 6:15–17

Related:

Elon Musk just posted a bunch of pictures of his tunnel and 'Boring' equipment 

BIN Conference Speaker Kade Hawkins, Founder of Prophecy News Watch, Is “Reporting Prophecy As it Unfolds”

Rapture in the OT  

2nicee View Post

I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer.

I'm pre-trib.

TribulationSigns View Post

[To another member] ...[Y]ou are confused because of your premillennial perspective, positing two resurrections rather than one.

:dizzy: Re 20:6


chtek View Post

[To another member] ...[Y]ou are wrong in suggesting that it is because of my premillennial perspective. Not so. This is the belief also of many who are not premillennial in their eschatology.

Now ask if he/she believes in a literal 1000 year reign.  We take the bible cerealisly.



buddyt View Post

[Chuck Missler] 

Good teacher.

Muzungu256 View Post

I went to a pre-trib research center on the internet and wow this system is so complicated...

It's not difficult at all. Here's the outline: Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things (Re 1:19).

See:

Revelation Session 1: Introduction Chuck Missler

PlainWord View Post

...[T]here is no time in heaven.

Re 8:1

See:

Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible. By Bob Enyart

PlainWord View Post

Who is smarter, Bob Enyart or Albert Einstein?

Then you are of Einstein but you're not of God (1 Co 1:15). The idea that God is outside of time comes from Greek paganism not the bible.

valiant View Post

[Satan] He is restrained...

"If Satan is bound, the leash is too long." ~ Chuck Smith

valiant View Post

which book of the Bible is Chuck Smith in...

:yawn: He reminded people never to believe a word he said. Be a Berean and check it out for yourself (Ac 17:11).

RickyZ View Post

God can reach out and touch any point in time...

:dizzy:.

See:

Is the Future Settled or Open? Dr. Lamerson vs. Enyart

PlainWord View Post

Even your own article that you linked us to starts out by saying this:  "Most Christian theologians join countless philosophers of the last 2,500 years in saying that God is outside of time."  So I guess I join those countless Christian theologians and scholars

:yawn: Bandwagon

Odelschwanck View Post

What we really need to be worrying about is King Ghidorah.

Bladerunner View Post

We are only 3 dimensional.

I agree we'll get more dimensions in our glorified body. What does that have to do with time?

Bladerunner View Post

I really do not understand,,,,,one minute you are saying one thing and then next another.  If God is omni-present... which means he is everywhere at the same time...

Why would you understand? You haven't read the books. The meaning you pour into the omnis and the ims is important. Don't be a Greek pagan.

VCO View Post

God is not a traveler in time, but rather the creator of time...

Time is not a created thing. :dizzy:

valiant View Post

[Satan's world] ...[H]is restraint is by God as He wills.

He's not on his earthly throne where he's supposed to be.  Revelation is about setting things as they should be.

samuel23 View Post

Before God created, there was no matter, no space, and no time.

And then he created a big clock. Re 8:1

Muzungu256 View Post

[Time not a creation] You realize this is very new idea that Bob Enyart is proposing?  Jews don't believe this and they are our forefathers in a sense.

Ad Antiquitatem , Bandwagon

valiant View Post

Pre-trib was unknown in the early church. It was invented by Darby & co.

False (Eph 4:14). :dizzy:

See:

Revelation Session 01 Introduction Chuck Missler

samuel23 View Post

You can look up pre-trib rapture in the encyclopedia and it will tell you that it was created by John Darby around 1830...



Going to have to look back a bit farther than that.

samuel23 View Post

To those who insist on promoting this false pre-trib rapture, I feel so sorry for you folks...

No one is arguing that you are going in the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

samuel23 View Post

Hey SP Read 2Thess 2 and it will tell you that the rapture cannot occur until after the revealing of the Antichrist...

Got that backwards.

Muzungu256 View Post

...[Y]ou got the old testament saints you got the church you got the tribulation saints...

Old Testament Saints (John the Baptist last one [Lk 7:28]), the church/the bride of Christ, tribulation saints.

We, the church, are overcomers (Re 2-3). The tribulation saints will be overcome (Re 13:7a, 9–10a). In other words, they get their heads chopped off, watch the torture of their loves ones chopping off fingers in front of them one by one. They cannot take the mark of the beast or they will be forever lost--no chance of heaven and become a beast (dna manipulation).

...[Y]ou got 3 raptures...

2 comings: 1. in the clouds--the rapture 2. The Second Coming

...[M]any resurrections... 

A first resurrection (better [Re 20:6]) and a second resurrection.

Also see:

Re 19:9-10 McGee,  MacArthur

...[S]eparate kingdoms...

Innocence (Ge 1:28), conscience (Ge 3:7), human government (Ge 8:15), Promise (Ge 12:1), law (Ex 19:1), grace (Ac 2:1), kingdom (Re 20:4).

...[A]nd many gospels...

1 Co 15:3-4

Men have always been saved the same way--by grace through faith (see: Hall of Faith [Heb 11]).

...[I]nsane!

2 Ti 1:7

Muzungu256 View Post

Aren't you the same lady who thinks God is bound by time?

Aren't you the one who believes that God is watching a DVD of our lives play out in the sky?

valiant View Post

[Spiritualizes/allagorizes everything] There is a spiritual resurrection...

Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?  What you mean by spiritual resurrection?

Muzungu256 View Post

That is what I also believe.

Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?

valiant View Post

[Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?] Yes but in a resurrection glorified body.

Do you believe in a literal Millennial reign by Jesus?

valiant View Post

No, I do not.

valiant View Post

[What you mean by spiritual resurrection?] When He has raised us with Christ and has seated us in Heavenly Places (Eph 2.5-6). Confirmed by Col 3.1.

Does Jesus now have a body?

valiant View Post

As far as we know the answer is yes.

You'd better know. We will be like him. Is replacement theology true?

Israel’s alleged 1967 nuclear ‘doomsday operation’ plan to be revealed

Bladerunner View Post

God gave Satan dominion of the entire earth--only when the 2nd advent happens will Satan be replaced with Jesus.

The Book of Revelation is all about putting everyone where they belong.

valiant View Post

No. the church has not replaced Israel, it is Israel.

Israel is not the church. The church is not Israel. Eph. 3:4–9

valiant View Post

[Israel is not the church. The church is not Israel. Eph. 3:4–9] Well Paul disagrees with you...

I think you mean the Roman Catholic brothel disagrees with me (Jud 11).  

VCO View Post Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. 
Dr. Adrian Rogers 
Dr. Charles Stanley...

All named above reject the movement of the Holy Spirit in the world today. Hope they are/were indwelled themselves. 1 Co 14:39

samuel23 View Post Hi SD, they are not rejecting the movement of the Holy Spirit just the things they see in Pentecostalism that are not of God.

The gift is subject to abuse, no doubt (1 Cor. 14:22–26).

PlainWord View Post We are in the new age called the Millennium.

Who rules and reigns on earth during the Millennium? Rev. 20:1–10

Queue jeopardy theme

PlainWord View Post The Mosaic Age ended meaning the end of the Jewish nation.

Guess Gabriel didn't know what he was talking about (Lk 1:31–33).

samuel23 View Post Who is preaching the word to them...

"...2. What John hears (7:2b–3): The fifth angel instructs the four not to harm the earth or sea until God’s servants have been sealed.
B. The sealed (7:4–8)
1. The total (7:4) : One hundred forty-four thousand are sealed.
2. The tribes (7:5–8): Twelve thousand from each of Israel’s twelve tribes are sealed." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 7:2–8). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
 

valiant View Post ...The mark of the beast was in the Roman 'world'...

Who puts down Rome II?

"...[L]et me quote Dr. Unger from Unger’s Bible Commentary: Zechariah (p. 40):

In line with Daniel’s great prophecies concerning “the times of the Gentiles” (Dan. 2:31–45; 7:2–13) three of the horns in turn and under the punitive hand of God become smiths, while the fourth and last horn is cast down by the world–wide kingdom set up by the returning Christ, coming to dash to pieces His enemies who are at the same time His peoples’ enemies (Ps. 2:1–12). Thus the first horn (Babylon) is cast down by Medo–Persia, the second horn. The second horn (Medo–Persia), accordingly, in turn becomes the first smith. The second horn (Medo–Persia) is cast down by the third horn, and thus becomes the second smith. The third horn (Macedonian Greece), is in turn cast down by the fourth horn (Rome), which thus becomes the third smith. The fourth horn (Rome), the most dreadful of all, does not become a smith but in its revived ten–kingdom form of the last days is destroyed by the fourth smith, the millennial kingdom set up by the returning “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev. 19:16).

..." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Zechariah) (electronic ed., Vol. 32, p. 25). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

valiant View Post Jesus is reigning over the earth (Acts 2.30-36).

Satan said, “I will give you [Jesus] the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them … if you will bow down and worship me.” Lk 4:5–7. Did Jesus say that he had no authority over the kingdoms?

VCO View Post You cannot even imagine the horrors of the Great Tribulation that certainly will come.  

Many confuse persecution (par for the course for the Christian) and the Great Tribulation.

See:

A 16 year Boy’s Vision Of The Great Tribulation

Muzungu256 View Post ...[W]hy do Jews agree that Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled...

(2) Second period, 434 years, at which time the Messiah will be crucified (9:26)
(3) Third period, 7 years, a reference to the coming Great Tribulation (9:27) Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Da 9:25–27). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Muzungu256 View Post ...[I]f someone can explain to me how people still die in the millennial kingdom...

Unbelievers die. It's not heaven.

[I]sn't the millennium God's kingdom?  Why are the unsaved mortals there?

They also get a choice. 

Muzungu256 View Post ...Where does it say Jesus Christ comes back twice?

1 Thess 4:17 (clouds, his feet do not touch the earth, rapture), Zech 14:4 (fault line waiting for a footprint, second coming).

PlainWord View Post [Preterist]

Eph 4:14

See:

What is the preterist view of the end times?

Bookends View Post [Re:  preterism] Your wooden literal mind wouldn't understand.

See:

The Purifying Hope, Part 3 by John MacArthur

popeye View Post [Marriage figurative of: God’s union with Israel (Is. 54:5), Christ’s union with His Church (Eph. 5:23–32), blaspheming God] I would not advise anyone to answer this. He is here to malign Jesus. Completely unteachable.

Pr 26:4, Mt 12:36

pckts View Post

[See: Revelation Session 01 Introduction Chuck Missler] I don't go off of Chuck's calendar...

:yawn: He teaches from the scriptures (Eph 4:14).  

Sower View Post

[Debate re: pre-trib :dizzy:]

"Look, we'll have landed by the time you get it right." ~ John Hammond, Jurassic Park 

The Greatest End-Times Sign - Revelation 12 | September 23, 2017 ... Here's Why. Scott Clarke

September 23, 2017 - Part 1- The Revelation 12 Sign - Unlocking Daniel's Sealed Prophecies God's Roadmap to the End

Flashback:

The first solar eclipse to cross America in 99 years is coming. To some, it’s an act of God.  

Related:

America Will Not Repent  

unsapien Wrote:  [Rapture] No it's worse then that...you hope for it.

Of course we do (Lk 21:36). This isn’t where you want to be when things begin to get bad.
[Image: smiley438.gif]

unsapien Wrote:  “Slowing down to get a look at an accident is sad...but...driving down a road hoping that you will see an accident that day is much worse.”

I don’t look at accident scenes. You think we want our loved ones to enter into the tribulation?  :squint:

Thumpalumpacus Wrote:   [zombie]Sure you wanna take that mark of the beast? [Image: zombiechase.gif]

Related:

Becoming a Beast

Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I saw this thread and got all excited...Then I saw it was from 2011...

That was when the watchmen on the wall began to wake up (Am 3:7).

Bucky Ball Wrote:  ...Paul too, was hoodwinked...

He didn't have the benefit of John's writing, Revelation.

TheInquisition Wrote:  ...Are you asserting that the 2nd coming is on the 23rd of September this year?

The rapture of the church hasn't even happened yet.
[Image: hammer.gif] Do you buy your Day-Timer from China? [Image: dizzy.gif]

Minimalist Wrote:  No fair using facts when all the other guy has are fairy tales...

The Re 12 sign in the sky on 23 Sept 17 isn't physical proof?
[Image: freaks.gif]

TheInquisition Wrote:  Are you asserting that the rapture will occur on the 23rd of September this year?

The rapture is the next event on God's prophetic calendar. If the feasts occur chronologically, then the rapture could occur on the Feast of Trumpets.

Shai Hulud Wrote:  ...I'd bet that serpentdove would bet a lot.

If I were a betting person, I'd have to agree with you. Related image


TheInquisition Wrote:  Doesn't sound like you are that sure of this alleged prophecy.

I’m pretty sure that Damascus is toast (Is 17, Jer 49:23-24, Re 12, 14). Want to dismiss that, too?


Paul believed he’d be raptured in his lifetime (1 Cor. 15:51). Does that make him a chump for believing that? No. He did not have the benefit of John’s Book of Revelation or Stellarium software. We do (Is 28:9-10).

Nothing needs to happen for the rapture to occur.

OmniConsUme Wrote:  ... Prophecy was never to tell the future.

Is 42:9, Rev. 22:10
[Image: dizzy.gif]

dancefortwo Wrote:  You're forgetting your omniscient god already knew Julep would make that choice even before time began...

God doesn't see a future that does not yet exist.
[Image: dizzy.gif] Who was Revelation given to? Re 1:1 

era Wrote:  ..[B]ronze-age mythology...

Bronze age; yes, Nebuchadnezzar dreamed something about that. We're coming up on the toes where you'll be turned into a beast. Good luck with that, nanu nanu.
[Image: Alien-smiley.png]

unsapien Wrote:
 Even if I thought your god was real I could never ally myself with a being that seeks to gain my obedience with threats of torture.


You have no fear.
[Image: idunno.gif] Ps 14:3

unsapien Wrote:  [You think we want our loved ones to enter into the tribulation?] If some of them did, do you think they would deserve it?

I know they would deserve it. God is just. We get a new family.


unsapien Wrote:  Do you think your god knows what he's doing?

Yes. He has plan. He’s calling out a people for his namesake. Whosoever will will. Whosoever won’t won’t.


Thoreauvian Wrote:  I see you bill yourself as a Christian. By your own understanding of the word, what is a Christian?

A Christ-follower. I'm a slave to him (Ro 8:14). You're a slave to sin (Jn 8:34).
 

jennybee Wrote:  …I thought no one knows the day or hour when Jesus will return but for God himself (Matt. 24).

You didn’t keep reading?
[Image: dizzy.gif]

JesseB Wrote:  ...[T]he rapture was supposed to happen during the lifetimes of the supposed disciples...

All people from then to now had hope--you're welcome (1 Thess 4:18).
[Image: juggle.gif] What they didn't have is the Re 12 sign appearing in the sky on 23 Sept 17. [Image: watching001.gif]

Let's Get it Started [Image: smileys-hockey-and-ice-hockey-053496.gif] ~ "The Peas" (Porn O'Reilly [Image: old_man-3569.gif]

jennybee Wrote:  I got raptured and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
So you won't hear me.
[Image: blabla.gif] Next stop, listen to the two witnesses. Do not take the mark of the beast and [Image: guillotine01.gif]lay down your life.  [Image: carryon.gif]

jennybee Wrote:  I'm hearing you. I just think you're full of sh*t.
[Image: rapture.gif] You get 3 1/2 years to choose to have your head chopped off (your best option). After that, those who have had their heads chopped off are gone with the two witnesses [Image: bowser.gif] [Image: bowser.gif] who also laid down their lives.

[Image: write.gif] Then, you try to hide in the earth [Image: smiley438.gif] and are angry. [Image: sozo.gif]). [Image: popcorn.gif]
 
JesseB Wrote:  Sticks n stones lady, sticks n stones.

We agree that we want evil removed from the planet.
:reals: We just disagree about [Image: secret.gif] who that is (Am 5:18-20, Re 11:18). [Image: popcorn.gif]

JesseB Wrote:  Who says I want "evil" removed from the world?

You'd like to contribute to it. Again, your choice (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10). You get your world--your heyday--to do what you will to Jews and Christians for 3 1/2 years.
[Image: zombiechase.gif] Knock yourself out. [Image: idunno.gif] Mt 18:6

"I prefer clarity to agreement." ~ Dennis Prager

JesseB Wrote:  [You won't have fear. Why would I wish to remove your will? Ro 9:22] You're right, I don't have fear. But I do get annoyed...

It's a yes or no question.
[Image: bug_head.gif] Why would I wish to remove your will? Ro 9:22

TheBear Wrote:  Carnage, and death, and bloodshed, and beheadings, and agony, and torture, and suffering - coming soon to a planet near you. Stand by for your local listings and times.

Ps 58:10
[Image: redface.gif]

JesseB Wrote:  What you wish, what you want, what you think, and what you believe are irrelevant.

I agree. What has God said (Eph 4:14).
[Image: read.gif]

TheBear Wrote:  ...[T]he usage of 'we believe' groupthink...

Satanists don't have we believe group think? The bible is a black and white book--you are righteous or wicked. Sorry you're in the latter camp.
:granite:

morondog Wrote:  ...Pure bullshit from end to end...

Are you able to form a sentence without a description of human copulation or excrement?
Hobo  

Clockwork Wrote:  I'm glad none of the Christians I personally know believe these Rapture claims when they come out.

Do you know a Christian?
[Image: redface.gif] 1 Thess 5:5-6

OmniConsUme Wrote:  ...Fundies gave up on living life.               

Lk 19:13

Clockwork Wrote:  Can you answer without a verse?

Do you mean a bible verse?
[Image: smoke.gif] Mk 8:38

2017-2018 The Final Jubilee: Season of the Rapture

noble View Post

[Rejects Pre-Trib] The verse says they are in the clouds with the Lord forever...

They are the bride--the church:

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words (1 Th 4:17-18, NKJV).

Tribulation saints are not raptured. They remain on the earth to be martyred (Re 11:7).

noble View Post

The people who are resurrected in verse 16 [For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first] are raised after the great trib…...

Wrong. Our loved ones who have departed before us rise first. Then, we meet them in the air to be with the Lord.

The rapture of the church is before the tribulation. We are not appointed to wrath: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth (Re 3:10).

[Tribulation saints are not raptured. They remain on the earth to be martyred (Re 11:7).] I don't call them tribulation saints…...

The church will always be the church--a special group in heaven. Tribulation saints must wait under the alter to be raised when the two witnesses die. When the last martyr gets his head chopped off then there will be no reason for the two witnesses to remain. They too, give up their lives as they instructed the Lord’s followers to do for 3 ½ years. After that time the only ones who remain on the earth are God-haters. Then, a can of seal six opens up for them at the mid-point.

noble View Post

The characteristics of those who are in the first resurrection are listed in Rev 20:4… 

These are the tribulation saints not the bride of Christ (the church). They had to wait for the two witnesses to die at the mid-point. The two witnesses had been preaching give up your life so you can live. If men take the mark of the beast--they mix their DNA with beast DNA, they will become a beast. Jesus died for men in Adam not men/beasts. If anyone takes the mark, he cannot be saved. They will have to willingly go to the guillotine to live with the Lord forever. When the last martyr dies, the two witnesses also lay down their lives: They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto death (Re 12:11).

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years (Re 20:4). 

…and 6. 

We, the church, are in the First Resurrection. They, the tribulation saints, are also in the Frist Resurrection. Tribulation saints have to wait under the alter until the two witnesses die:  How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Re 6:10

We have already gone to the throne room of heaven (Re 4).  

That restricts the participants to people who have testified about Jesus… 

That’s what we’ve been doing. The church has always been persecuted for her faith. Persecution is not the tribulation of Revelation--that is par for the course for a believer. The tribulation of Revelation is a different dispensation.  

…[P]eople who resisted the tribulation beast in some way and they are all righteous men...

The church has always resisted the world system. We are hated for our love for Jesus (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10). Again, nothing new under the sun. We are not overcome. We are the overcomers (Re 1-3). Tribulation saints are overcome (Re 13:7).  

…[T]hat doesn't fit any of my loved ones at all. 

If your loved ones believe that Jesus is the Son of God and call out to him, they will be saved (Ro 10:9-13). If they fail to do this prior to the rapture, they will go into the tribulation and will have to lose their head if they are ever to be saved.  

There are no resurrections of the dead until the coming and the 'caught up'… 

Then who were all of those dead people walking after Jesus rose? He is the firstfruit. To be a firstfruit, there must be additional numbers. We, the church, are the main harvest. The tribulation saints are the corners. We are the barley harvest. The Jews are the wheat harvest. Owners could not glean the corners of their fields legally. There’s a certain way that we all come into the kingdom. 

Jesus told them to flee from Judea… 

Are you a Jew? You’re not fleeing anywhere. You’re in Christ or you’re not. The Jews currently reject the New Testament. When the Lord places his foot on the Mt. of Olives (there is a fault line there), there will be a crack in the earth. Satan attempts to drown the Jews in a flood. The earth opens up and protects them. They (the Jews not you) now believing the New Testament, flee. The Jews who do not believe die.  

I would think you would call Christians on earth ...'church' too. 

If you remain, you were not of the church. The evidence is your still being here after the rapture. You weren’t the church. You’ll never be the church. Don’t buy pearls—they’re not a picture of you.

The church is the church. The tribulations saints are the tribulation saints.

Earth-dwellers are Satan’s children. They murder tribulation saints in the first 3 ½ years. Jews aren’t given the opportunity to lose their heads and die. They; rather, are enslaved--women are raped and the Lord comes to their rescue at the mid-point.

Anyone still around at the mid-point is a God-hater (they’ve been murdering tribulation saints and raping Jewish women). After the Lord comes to protect his people, the Babylonia system goes down. He is the stone that puts down Nebuchadnezzar’s statue--Babylonian system finished.

Rod.ney View Post

Once they get to those clouds...

Does that remind you of the Jews and the Shakina glory? :Shimei:  It should.

[After receiving glorified bodies]…[T]hey are then no longer in those clouds…

Why would we stay in the clouds?  We go to the throne room.

…I will follow the Lord in order to be with Him… 

If you are his, you will join him in the clouds. If you are an unbeliever or a make-believer, you will not.

…[T]o get ready for His Wedding (Rev.19:7-8 )…

We invite the tribulation saints. I don't mind setting a table.  

…[T]he created the New earth…

Created at the mid-point. The earth will have been poisoned by radiation.

Rapture Update Alan Horvath  

Is the USA in the Bible? Great American Eclipse Aug 21st, 2017 a Real End Time Sign?  Steve Cioccolanti & Discover Ministries

TomL replied

There is no pretribulation rapture…

Something about the Re 12 sign that bothers you? :smokie:2 Pe 2:1

GISMYS View Post

There is no teaching of bible prophecy whatsoever.

Our churches are full of weaklings and fools because of you. The people that are supposed to be salt and light to the world are neither.

You know Satan sends his workers out too, don’t you? :squint: Mark 4:15

davidbrainerd View Post

Right, the time is short, so make sure to waste it all teaching eschatology nonsense rather than the gospel.

Case in point (2 Pe 2:1).

GISMYS View Post

Critical Warning to all Pastors and Bible Teachers. Give the people Truth and warn of the cost of sin and the lateness of the hour as rapture day is very near!

Highest rapture watch in our lifetime (Re 12:1-5). :idunno:

GISMYS View Post

[Cut & paste repeating self]

You already said this. :squint:

GISMYS View Post

Yes! Now you have no excuse!

I didn't have any excuse before your post (Ro 1:20). :dizzy:

Odë:hgöd View Post

Jonah 1:17 . . Yhvh provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights....

Nineveh repented. What will America do? Is 18:2

TomL View Post

The catching up of believers transpires after the resurrection of those that are Christ's...

They precede us. We meet them in the air (1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 4:13, 14, 16).

Confirmation Report:  Abba Up! Zeus Mossbender  

simplicio View Post

And just what is the correct ba'al for the former Mrs. Trump?

Mrs. Trump lives down the street in a hut. She will be former (your word) when the Donald :greedy: dies (Rom. 7:2, 3).

“I prefer clarity to agreement.” ~ Dennis Prager

Many Christians argue that they are not bound by the Old Testament laws…

When did God nail do not murder, do not commit adultery to the cross? :smokie:

…[T]he release from the law occurred at the cross.

Mal 4:4-6, Mt 24:14 :juggle:

See:

Lordship 

simplicio View Post  

Cool another end times allusion. Hmm.

I always confuse tall and smooth of skin with ugly giant bags of mostly water

Rapture (The Catching Away)  

halotop View Post

Serpent dove, do you mean to suggest that these verses should be interpreted literally?...100% literal interpretation of 100% of the Bible creates fragile, dogmatic theology and prevents dialogue with the text.

You mean God doesn't have feathers? :freak: Ps 61:4. Thank you ever so. :dizzy:

See:

Hermeneutics  

TomL View Post

[What is the day of the Lord?]

A bad time (Am 5:18).

Revelation 12 Daily Interview with Tribulation Now Radio l September 23 2017 Alignment  Pt 1, Pt 2 Pt 3 Parable of the Vineyard   

Reply to Not-So-Informed Christians

Paul linked the rapture with the Feast of Trumpets (1 Co 15:52).  He didn't say, be on the grape watch, be on the fig watch, have oil in your lamp and spare oil on the side and a coupon to Grease Monkey.  

Reply to Kelly

…I do not believe that the Trump of God is a man-made horn blown on Rash Hashanah.

Rosh Hashanah is not a term which is used in scripture.  For a Jew, "at the last trump" refers to a feast day--The Feast of Trumpets--no one knows the day or hour.  Re 12:1-3 connects Ge 3:15 to Is 66:7, etc.  Valles does not appear to have eyes to see and ears to hear what the spirit is saying to the churches.    

...If feast days is what you want to focus on then I suggest you learn the names of them.

I suggest you learn your bible.  :dizzy: "...It was not until about the second century C.E. that the holiday acquired the name Rosh HaShanah, which first appeared in the Mishnah. Before then, however, the day had many other designations. The oldest name, found in the Torah (Numbers 29:1) is Yom T’ruah (Day of Sounding the Shofar). Two other names, undoubtedly reflecting Babylonian influence, were Yom HaZikaron (Day of Remembrance) and Yom HaDin (Day of Judgment)..." Full text: 

Please consider that When you go around saying " for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear" you are making a big statement. Humble yourself and study.

The watchmen have been studying the Re 12 sign for some time.  They also watch for the false teachers who would point you away from it like Valles.  The sign is great (Re 12:1).  Grapes and figs--not so great.  :idunno:  Learn what it means and why it's there (Re 1:1).   

I take it you are young so I want to encourage you to keep reading and pray.  

:yawn: Argument from age Eph 4:14 

Hey I'm glad your [sic] doing some research now. Its cool that you didn't understand Rosh Hashanah…

:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14).  

Reply to  1FourYeshua

Note of interest: This may be where some people get their understanding that Revelation 12 is not a mid-trib chapter but rather the beginning...

I agree. It kicks it all off. There is a good possibility that we will be raptured on or around 23 Sep 17.   

Reply to Teral

The Lord’s return is not based on “the next cycle” of the “black star”.  The Day of the Lord is the start of the Great Tribulation which lasts for 7 years.  You said “we don’t have warning signs”.  Yes we do (Re 12:1-3) which you’ve been pointing views away from (2 Pe 2:1).  We didn’t ask for a sign.  We weren’t looking for a sign—we got one anyway.  

“This time it [crossing event] happens before the sun turns dark.” 

You claim to have science on your side.  The science says that the sun has been turning dark (not that that is necessarily a fulfillment of prophecy yet). 

See:

 Dark Sun Rising Zeus Mossbender 

“Nobody sees other than Paul...”

Paul wasn’t permitted to reveal what he saw regarding end times.  It hadn’t been unsealed (Dan 9:24) yet (2 Co 12:4). :dizzy: Now, it is unsealed (Re 22:10). :Poly:

"It's coming...like a thief in night...

Not to the believer (1 Thess 5:4). :hammer:

“The time in-between [crossings] is the Day of the Lord…”

The greater destruction does not come until the second half of Daniel’s 70th week (3 ½ years into the tribulation).  The church is long gone. :rapture:

We escape the wrath (Re 3:10).  Jesus doesn’t say, let’s get engaged; now go get beat the hell up, and then let’s have dinner. :dizzy:

 “As a thousand years…as long as it takes…”

Jesus will rule and reign for a literal 1000 years.  Man had his chance.  We see what a bang up job he did. 

The Lord is not waiting on a second crossing event to fulfill prophecy.  :hammer: Once the rapture occurs (likely on or around 23 Sep 17), the time is set, events and their duration are known.  When the church is gone (Re 4), the rapture God returns to his plan for Israel.    

“The Virgo prophecies will be fulfilled at the end of the age…”

The “woman” prophecy is being fulfilled on 23 Sep 17.    

"People who thought...the world was going to end in September..."

:yawn: Strawman (Eph 4:14).

The world does not end.  The church is removed and the tribulation begins. 

"...'Wait a minute it didn't happen that way.'  It's not going to happen that way."

We'll know how it happened on 24 Sep 17 (2 Pe 2:1).

[Survival group]

You tell your follows to solidity their relationships with other survival members (no mention of having a right relationship with Jesus).  If they're still here, they were unbelievers or make-believers.  :reals: Make friends with these folks? :granite:

"All we can do is prepare for the threat that is in our face."

That would be my Lord returning with wrath.  When he sees me, he will smile.  :straight: What will his expression be when he sees you? Rom. 2:5–8 

Rapture Ready (TOL), (CARM), (CC), (TTA)