Rapture Ready

[Rabbi Kanievsky to Mishkoltz Rabbi: “All That Can Be Done is to Wait for Messiah” by Adam Eliyahu Berkowitz Breaking Israel News | Israel Latest News, Israel Prophecy News] "“’Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,’ says the LORD of hosts. But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears?” Malachi 3:1 (The Israel Bible™)

Last Saturday night, Rabbi Shalom Berger, the spiritual leader of the Mishkoltz sect of Hassidic Orthodox Jews, paid a visit to Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the leading rabbis of this generation.

A large crowd gathered to witness the auspicious meeting of these two great Torah authorities. Rabbi Berger brought a copy of his book on the section of the Talmud (Oral Law) dealing with Shabbat as a gift for Rabbi Kanievsky, who studied a few pages and encouraged him to write more books of this kind.

Rabbi Berger then asked Rabbi Kanievsky if it is true that this year is especially auspicious for the coming of the Messiah.

Rabbi Kanievsky answered without hesitation. “Of course, the year, 5776, in Hebrew letters (תשע”ו‎) spells ‘salvation’ (תשוע)...” Full text: Rabbi Kanievsky to Mishkoltz Rabbi: “All That Can Be Done is to Wait for Messiah” Re 1:7


Sept 23 2017

Planet X

Crucible View Post

The 'Rapture' is mostly new age wishful thinking...

Re 3:10 KJV

"Rapture, the—translation of saved at Christ’s return. Not all will sleep (1 Cor. 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:15, 17), Dead in Christ will rise (1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 4:13, 14, 16), Living to be transformed (1 Cor. 15:51–53), Saints caught up (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 519). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

And how does that refer to a 'rapture'?

Jn 8:37

musterion View Post

...They're becoming increasingly convinced that they must endure unto the end to be saved, and if they don't they'll be lost.

Perhaps they will (Dan 7:21).

1 Co 15:26


The church is the church. Tribulation saints are tribulation saints----two different groups.

If you'd like to be in the former group, repent greasy gracers (Jud 4).

Birth pangs are painful. They point to his second coming. The rapture is imminent.

musterion View Post

What does "greasy grace" mean.

No links, what is your definition of that term, in one or two sentences.

Hypergrace, what John Wesley called the false convert--one who signs a card, walks down an isle, converts at age 8--lives like the devil his whole life and thinks he's going to heaven.

How much oil do you need in your lamp to go in the rapture?

Queue jeopardy theme (right click, open).

musterion View Post

That is a problem, especially if the power of God unto salvation is not being preached...

There is Power in the Blood Matt. 26:28

Crucible View Post

It is heresy, plain and simple.  Revelations [sic] speaks upon persecuted Christians rising as Jesus did after he was martyred.

Revelation no s (Jas 3:1).  

It's a series of revelations.

The Book is Revelation. If you don't know that, you probably shouldn't be teaching eschatology.

The fact that you even have to go there to make yourself appear to be more knowledgeable ...

Ad hominem Eph 4:14, 1 Co 1:27


One more mission. 1 Cor. 9:16

B.I.B.L.E. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

SaulToPaul View Post

We have no mandate whatsoever to clean up this earth, or this evil world system.

We are supposed to stare at the sky (Ro 10:14). It's all about you (Lk 19:13).

Lk 12:37, Jn 9:4

Takin' Care Of Business ~ Bachman-Turner Overdrive

SaulToPaul View Post

You're projecting again.

J.O.Y. Goes in the rapture. Jesus Others You 2 Tim. 3:2, Phil. 2:21



The Lord is going to get us there safely (2 Co 12:9).


musterion View Post

[Rejects Lordship] Like talking to a robot.

Hopefully you have an Abraham in the family (Ge 18:25-26, Jas 5:16).



Also see:

Be Like Abraham

Crucible View Post

Rapture theory did not exist anywhere in historical eschatology.  It is an invention of late.

ἁρπάζω ‘to seize, to snatch away, to take away.’ "...[T]he English "rapture" is a close derivative of the Latin word for "snatch [away]" (viz., rapere) which was used in the Latin Vulgate translation of the New Testament..." Full text: The "Rapture" or The "Snatching Away"

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven (Mt 7:21, emphasis mine).

Scroll's gonna open shortly (Re 5-8)...

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you (Mt 28:19–20, emphasis mine).

Danoh View Post

Including...Matthew 23:1


Ready to Go ~ Republica

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works (Mt 23:1-3, emphasis mine).

Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Pe 2:5). You're not? Jud 4 Don't think you'll be going in the rapture greasy gracer (Lk 17:26).

Crucible View Post

There is no 'rapture'...Revelation 2:10


Re 2:9-10 McGee

Arthur Brain View Post

I think SD's already left the planet so there's some proof for the 'rapture'...

Do you want me to be your governor? Is 32:1, 1 Cor. 6:2; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 2:26, 27; 3:21


The Magnificence of Mercy by Adrian Rogers

Danoh View Post
[To another member] You have been watching too much Star Trek...

The second coming is different. The rapture will already have occurred.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left [Matt. 24:40–41].

"I can hear someone saying to me, “Well, preacher, you have finally painted yourself into a corner. You said the church and the Rapture are not in the Olivet Discourse, but here they are. Two shall be in the field; one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.”

Well, my friend, He still is not talking about the Rapture. After all, what is our Lord talking about here? “As the days of Noe were.” Who was taken away in the days of Noah? “They knew not until the flood came, and took them all away.” They perished in the Flood. This is not referring to the Rapture when the church will be taken out of the world. Rather, this pictures the removing from the earth by judgment those who are not going to enter the millennial Kingdom." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28) (electronic ed., Vol. 35, p. 146). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Danoh View Post

...[H]ow did McGee arrive at that...

The church has already been raptured. Those who took the mark are not going into the Millennium.

The believer is taken up with the Lord.



1 Thess 4:16-17, Eph 1:10, 2 Thess 2:1, Heb 12:22-24

Book of remembrance--rapture (Mal 3:16). Book of Life--heaven (Re 20:15).

DAN P View Post

...[W]hy do you post a verse and not tell what it means and your point?

The Feast of Trumpets is shrouded in a mystery. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. The moon was concealed. The Jews needed two witnesses to attest to the fact that they'd seen a sliver of the moon. No one knew the day or the hour. The Feast of Trumpets is a high rapture watch day.

Nick M View Post

How many good works are needed to offset the evil you have committed?

Eph 2:8-9



Interplanner View Post

[Nick M post] Ok, now we are getting into the area that this was never supposed to go...

These greasy gracers don't discuss: God's holiness, man's need for repentance, surrendering to God's will, etc.

A chicken says to the pig, let's give the master an egg and bacon sandwich this morning. The pig says, "That's easy for you to say. You're just giving him an egg." Schwarzentraub.

Ask these hypergracers what their faith has cost them.



Interplanner View Post

We are not here to watch for a rapture. We are awaiting Christ. 

He meets us in the air (1 Thess 4:17). What's the difference? Lk 21:34, 1 Thess 5:4, Am 3:7

It's not the same thing. It is not healthy to give up on the battle that is before us in this life.

We eagerly look forward to his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).  Do you?  Or, do you prefer this world? 1 Jn 2:15 I hope you eagerly look forward to his appearing.  If you don't--red flag!

steko View Post

So, you disagree with Paul that we should comfort one another with these words:  1 Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Pre-trib is comforting. Mid-trib, post-trib, (Jesus a wife-beater)--that's not comforting.

Vid: Your tears are as unique (and beautiful) as snowflakes Eccl 3:4, Ps 56:8, 126:5, Re 21:4

In a Big Country ~ Big Country

Most people who are obsessed with the rapture (mentioned on a few times...)...

Start with Exodus--and all over the rest of scripture from there for those with spiritual eyes and ears.

...are escapist...

That's the plan (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). You lovin' this world and the things in it? 1 Jn 2:15

...and think Christian faith is escapist.

Escape Reward for faithfulness Re 2:23

...Go spend a week at PragerU.com...

Prager wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on his back parts.

...and get involved in actually stopping dictatorial government...

The bible makes it clear--this world will get worse before it gets better. Part of making it better is removing the infestation which inhabits it (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10, Mt 24:41). Even Prager can understand that. He was pro-flood.

...[Y]ou don't have any credibility.

Poisoning the well Eph 4:14

To await Christ is not the same as to escape our job here.

Who's not working? Mt 24:46

To work on our job here is not "preferring this world".

Don't hate us because we're going in the rapture (1 Cor. 15:51–53). You, too, could love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).

Where is the appetite to counter the enemies of freedom and liberty now?

What do you think we've been doing all this time? Lk 19:13, Jn 8:36, 2 Thess. 2:7, 8 Explain your displeasure with those who love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8).

Interplanner View Post

Good for you if you have. Hope you're buying ticket gifts to Hilary's America and sending the PragerU link around to friends and contacts.

Why would I do that--so I can hold their hands on their way to hell? 1 Co 6:9-10. Shall I start a new PU thread? Prager thinks he’s a good man (Ro 3:12). Prager thinks he’s done good things for the world (Ro 1:32). What Prager really does during his happenstance hour and male/female hour is try to help people feel cozy in their sin. Prager loves his dirty diapers and he hopes you're enjoying yours, too (Is 61:10, Col 3:9).

"Sometimes we must comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." ~ David Jeremiah

…to listen to most modern Christians talk, you'd think the neat thing was the route--the transport--the dematerialization. Not Christ himself.
Who wouldn't love a good Six Flags ride into the air without a seatbelt? 1 Thess. 4:16, 17 Not so filled with love at the thought of his appearing? 2 Ti 4:8, Heb 10:27

"It is a huge mistake to take God's gifts and rob him of his glory" -- Luther

We love his appearing (2 Ti 4:8). We live to glorify him. You're Lot's wife too in love with Sodom.

Danoh View Post

You bookworm, you

What sort of bride doesn't want her bridegroom to ever show up?

Interplanner View Post

You are otherworldly, and I don't see that in true Christian faith.

Perhaps you've never met a Christian (Jas 4:4).

[Prager] Only this week did he explain once again that parent that does not teach kids they have to battle themselves (the evil in themselves, not the 'environment') is worthless.

He can't control himself (Mt 5:28). He's a wave the white flag kind of guy (2 Pe 1:6).

...the Christian mission is here to see the world turned upside down...

No it's not (Mk 16:15).

"We give out the word of God. What men do with it is their business." ~ J. Vernon McGee

You have decided to take one minor aspect of the 2nd coming and distort the very fiber of the thing.

The rapture is not the Second Coming. The rapture occurs prior to his Second Coming.

All those who await the 2nd coming, who want to see Christ, have a deep yearning for all society to be righteous and self-controlled as well.

That will come soon enough.  What is more important is to be prepared to be worthy to escape all these things which are coming on the earth (Lk 21:36).

Re: Prager and Mt 5:28 I don't think you've caught what Prager says there. He means that men have that inclination; Christ said this, not that anything can be done about it, but to define that all people are adulterous. "Tidy" remarriage arrangements by the Pharisees do not solve it. Women are often emotionally adulterous, too.

Prager has no interest in scrubbing himself up (Jn 15:3).

There is no such things as remarriage until one's spouse is dead (Rom. 7:2, 3). The word you are looking for is adultery (Heb. 13:4). But, this is Sodom aka America. We make it up as we go along.


Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper by John Piper

I think your understanding of both people is on the level of sound-bytes...

"Repetition is the mother of pedagogy." ~ Dennis Prager

Prager has said many times how disgusting adultery and porn are; or addiction in general.

He discards wives as one might discard an orange peel after having squeezed all the juice out (Rogers).  Prager is a pragmatist.

Re: turning the world upside down.  OK, they don't wake up trying to do that each day.

You're awfully concerned with our Day Timers. You could always get off your blessed assurance and do your own kingdom work. Mk 9:41, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Mt 13:7, Jud 1:9

...[T]here are secular versions of simply escaping everything in our culture...

Discussion about the rapture disturbs you. Maybe that's because you're not going in it (Lk 21:36). Maybe you're a foolish virgin with no oil in your lamp.

...[W]hich is dangerous thinking...

Dangerous encouraging 1 Thess 4:18

...it is dangerous morally and theologically.

For you, the bible is dangerous. For us it's a bright day (Ps 37:6). There are a lot of caterpillars out there pretending to be butterflies.

There are no long lists of geo-political events that need to take place for the 2nd coming and day of judgment to take place.

The rapture is imminent.  The Second Coming occurs 7 years after that.

You have mistakenly used Lk 21 here and has no basis.

Jn 8:37

Lazy afternoon View Post

[The rapture is not the Second Coming. The rapture occurs prior to his Second Coming.] No.  Christ returns to raise the saints and every eye sees Him coming.

I suppose you are responding to me since you quote me (without a link [Eph 4:14]).

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen [Rev. 1:7].

"“Behold, he cometh with clouds” denotes the personal and physical coming of Christ.

“And every eye shall see him” reveals that His coming will be a physical and bodily appearance, an appeal to the eye–gate. As far as we know, when Christ takes the church out of the world at the Rapture, He doesn’t appear to everyone. I don’t believe in a secret rapture as some folk have attempted to describe it, but at the time of the Rapture He does not come to the earth. Believers are to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. If Christ will be coming to the earth at that time, there is no point in being caught up in the air. Therefore, this is not the Rapture which is being described in this verse. This is His return to the earth as King.

“Every eye shall see him.” The emphasis in the Book of Revelation is upon His coming to this earth to establish His Kingdom.

“All kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.” Probably a better translation is this: “All the tribes of the earth shall beat their breasts because of him.” This is going to be the reaction of all Christ–rejectors. The world will not want to see Him.

“Even so, Amen” means “Yea, faithful.” He is going to do it, my friend. He is not going to change His mind about it. He is faithful." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible Commentary: The Prophecy (Revelation 1-5) (electronic ed., Vol. 58, p. 43). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

Interplanner View Post

[Rapture, Second Coming] It all happens at once...

Jas 3:1

Lazy afternoon View Post

You attempt to defame a son of God...

Choleric put you on Satan, Inc. Eph 4:14, 5:11

Interplanner View Post

This is a non-topic biblically...

“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Lk 21:34–36

That whole passage especially is about the destruction of Jerusalem...

"Lk 21:34 that Day. I.e., the day of His return. See note on Matt. 24:37. When Christ mentions His return, he invariably enjoins watchfulness (cf. 12:37–40; Matt. 25:13; Mark 13:33–37)...

...Mt 24:37 as the days of Noah were. Jesus’ emphasis here is not so much on the extreme wickedness of Noah’s day (Gen. 6:5), but on the people’s preoccupation with mundane matters of everyday life (“eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage”—v. 38), when judgment fell suddenly. They had received warnings, in the form of Noah’s preaching (2 Pet. 2:5)—and the ark itself, which was a testimony to the judgment that was to come. But they were unconcerned about such matters and therefore were swept away unexpectedly in the midst of their daily activities.

24:40, 41 one will be taken. I.e., taken in judgment (cf. v. 39) just as in Noah’s day (“took them”; v. 39). This is clearly not a reference to the catching away of believers described in 1 Thess. 4:16, 17.

24:43 the thief. As no one knows what hour the thief will come, no one knows the hour of the Lord’s return or the Day of the Lord that accompanies His coming (cf. 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Pet. 3:10). But the believer is to be ready at all times." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1440). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Also see:

What do partial preterists believe?

What is the preterist view of the end times?

...(seeing it did not happen) we need 2 Peter 3

You can thank him for his longsuffering.

Peter describes three “worlds.”

I. THE ANCIENT WORLD (3:5b–6): This world was destroyed by the great Flood in the days of Noah.

II. THE PRESENT WORLD (3:1–5a, 7–12, 14–18)
A. The documents (3:1–2): Peter has written both his epistles admonishing his readers to remember the great truths.
1. The truths spoken by the Old Testament prophets (3:1–2a)
2. The truths spoken by the New Testament apostles (3:2c)
3. The truths spoken by the Savior himself (3:2b)
B. The derision (3:3–5a): Peter warns that scoffers will appear during the last days.
1. They will falsify the facts concerning the future fire judgment (3:3–4): They will say, “Jesus promised to come back, did he? Then where is he?”
2. They will deliberately forget the facts concerning the past flood judgment (3:5a).
C. The destruction (3:7, 10, 12b)
1. The fact of this destruction (3:7): The same God who once sent the flood will one day send fire.
2. The fury of this destruction (3:10, 12b): It will utterly consume both earthly and heavenly elements.
D. The delay (3:8–9)
1. The timelessness of God (3:8): A day to him is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.
2. The tenderness of God (3:9): He is patient, not wanting anyone to perish.
E. The dedication (3:11–12a, 14–18): In light of all this, two biblical writers admonish believers to live godly and holy lives.
1. Peter’s exhortation (3:11–12a, 14, 17–18): Grow in favor with the Lord.
2. Paul’s exhortation (3:15–16): The Lord is waiting to return so that more people will have time to be saved.

III. THE NEW WORLD (3:13): This future earth will become the home of universal righteousness
Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (2 Pe 3). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Interplanner View Post

...Nothing, nada, zip about events in Israel that 'need' to happen so that the 2nd coming can proceed.

Ad infinitum Eph 4:14


What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Lazy afternoon View Post

The rapture occurs at the second coming.

I've got a door knob more biblically literate than you (2 Pe 2:1).

Lazy afternoon View Post

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation [Heb. 9:28].

"This is not speaking of the Rapture, but of His coming as sovereign to judge the earth. (However, believers will not come into judgment.) When He appears the second time it will not be to settle the sin question. He is not going to come the next time to walk around the Sea of Galilee or through the streets of Jerusalem to see what men will do with His sacrifice. He is coming in judgment.

Therefore today we can put it very simply: there is just one of two places for your sin—either your sin is on you, or it is on Christ. If you have not accepted the sacrifice of Christ, if you are not trusting Him as your redeemer, if He is no authority to you, then there is nothing ahead of you but the judgment of the Great White Throne. No one who appears there is going to be saved, but everyone will be given a fair chance to present their works and discover that God was right all along. And I have news for you: God is always right. So today if your sin is on you, there is nothing that can remove it but the death of Christ.

When Christ comes the next time it will be “without sin unto salvation”—that is, He will complete salvation at that time. Our salvation is in three tenses: I have been saved; I am being saved; I shall be saved. “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). Now that is going to be a great day. It is going to be a great day for Vernon McGee, so don’t you be dissatisfied with me, will you not? God is not through with me.

Down in Mississippi a dear little lady wearing a sunbonnet got up in a testimony meeting under the brush arbor and said, “Most Christians ought to have written on their backs, ‘This is not the best that the grace of God can do.’” Well, that should be written on the backs of all Christians. God is not through with any of us. Thank God for that! He is going to appear the second time without sin unto salvation—He is going to deliver us. But, my friend, He will not come to settle the sin question for anyone who has not accepted Him—to them He is coming as judge." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (Hebrews 8-13) (electronic ed., Vol. 52, p. 46). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Lazy afternoon View Post

[Heb 9:28 J. Vernon McGee] Made up.

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).


Heb 9:27-28 Guthrie

[Pre tribbers] ...[T]hey follow one another and never get a clear word from Christ...

You're projecting again (Eph 4:14).

Mt 24:44

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

One Year Anniversary 'Peace and Safety'

...Netanyahu: Looking Forward To Working With Trump On Twin Interests Of Peace, Security 1 Thess 5:3

What Does "Unclean" Mean?

Sesame Street Rubber Ducky Song

Interplanner View Post

It is the Levitical sense. Believers have been cleansed in Christ.

Depends on what the meaning of believer is (Re 3:17).



Those who believe Heb 8-10.

Those people (Mt 7:22-23).

Love without holiness is mere sentiment (1 Jn 3:9).

Are You Saved? Ps. 24:4

”Slider you stink.” ~ Maverick

So...you aren't talking about 'unclean' after all.

Jn 3:8

Mk 13:35

Ancient Secret of Daniel’s 70 Weeks Predicts End of Days Will Come This Year Re 1:7

An Auspicious 9-Minute Prayer Window Opens for First and Last Time in 28 Years Ps 145:18

Interplanner View Post

If we have learned anything from the last 50 years of pop eschatology, it is that date-setters are delusional.

We don't set dates. Am 3:7

Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle?
Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
He who walks uprightly,
And works righteousness,
And speaks the truth in his heart;
He who does not backbite with his tongue,
Nor does evil to his neighbor,
Nor does he take up a reproach against his friend;
In whose eyes a vile person is despised,
But he honors those who fear the Lord;
He who swears to his own hurt and does not change;
He who does not put out his money at usury,
Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent.

He who does these things shall never be moved. Ps 15:1–5

SaulToPaul View Post

Too bad you are not eligible to dwell in the holy hill of Zion...none of us are.

Ditch the leisure suit. Get yourself a robe of righteousness (Is. 61:10).


Jesus Only  by J. Vernon McGee

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post


SaulToPaul View Post

SaulToPaul View Post



Jas 2:17-18 McGee



SaulToPaul View Post


Matt. 12:17–21



SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] Too bad you are not eligible to dwell in the holy hill of Zion...none of us are.

Lazy afternoon View Post

As a reminder Lazy afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] You can only speak for yourself.

We don't know another's heart (1 Co 4:5). We can get an idea about who they are by the fruits that they produce: A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them (Mt 7:18–20).

SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ] A heretic list is funny thing for an unsaved self righteous person to publish!

Eph 5:11



SaulToPaul View Post

[As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. ]

Eph 4:14



SaulToPaul View Post

Changing quotes is against TOL rules.

Proof please (Eph 4:14).

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

I think the false accuser is going to be taking a nice TOL vacation soon...

Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

[Receive warning for 'provoking SaulToPaul'] Ro 14:4, Ps 105:15

Crucible View Post

Before the 17th century there was no concept of a rapture.

And before that there was. 1 Thess. 4:16, 17

Crucible View Post

[1 Thess. 4:16, 17] There's not a single verse in scripture that actually shows your rapture.

Jn 8:37

Daniel1769 View Post

...Rapture after the Tribulation...

Lk 21:36, Re 3:10

Crucible View Post

[Rapture]...[I]t only exists in your imagination...

1 Cor. 15:51–53

northwye View Post

...Rapture cultists say that Christ can come at any time.

His return is imminent. Better check your oil (Matt. 25:1–13).

john w View Post

Catholic serpent dove-it is the Lord Jesus Christ...

This from a guy who rejects Lordship? 2 Pe 2:1

john w View Post
[Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, Rejection of Lordship] Yes...

I am warned, removed from a conversation and/or banned when I respond to you (2 Pe 2:1).

Sorry to 'provoke' you.

john w View Post

[Here for now (Jb 38:19)] Oh.

"Section Outline Twelve (Revelation 12)
John sees an interplay between a woman and a dragon, symbolizing the nation of Israel and Satan.

A. His sin at the beginning (12:3–4): This seems to refer to his original fall.
B. His sin at Bethlehem (12; 1–2, 4–5)
1. Satan’s persecution of God’s nation (12:1–2)
2. Satan’s persecution of God’s Son (12:4b, 5b)
a. The birth of Jesus (12:4a, 5a)
b. The ascension of Jesus (12:5c)

A. The woman in the wilderness (12:6, 13–18): The woman here is the nation of Israel.
1. Israel will be persecuted by Satan during the Great Tribulation (12:13, 15, 17–18).
2. Israel will be protected by God during the Great Tribulation (12:6, 14, 16).
B. The war in the heavens (12:7–12): Some believe this will occur in the middle of the Great Tribulation.
1. The results (12:7–9)
a. The defeat of Satan (12:7–8): Michael the archangel will defeat him.
b. The dismissal of Satan (12:9) : He will be cast down to earth.
2. The reaction (12:10–12)
a. Satan will be filled with wrath (12:10b, 12c).
b. Saints will be filled with joy (12:10a, 11–12a).
c. Sinners will be filled with fear (12:12b)" Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.


Revelation 12 Sign

Cornerstone Church Nashville Christmas Presentation: A Critique Christopher E. Hamrick

Daniel1769 View Post

[Lk 21:36, Re 3:10] Nothing there says the rapture is before the tribulation.

If you think you're not going in the rapture you're probably right (Re 2:22).

But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the sons of Levi,
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness. Mal 3:2–3

everready View Post

The rapture debacle in a nutshell...Jesuit End Times Antichrist Deception...

When we're all gone no we haven't been abducted by aliens. 1 Thess. 4:16, 17


Believe the Lie

john w View Post

[Re 12 Sign] Translated: Spam, throw out a bunch of unrelated verses...

Jn 8:37

As a reminder john w is number 58 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

[Re 12 sign] The poor lost works salvationist...

Strawman Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

SaulToPaul View Post

[Jb 38:19, Re 12 sign] Still provoking, despite getting a warning. I believe your TOL days are getting short.

Eph 4:14

As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

[Banned:  :banned:provoking other membersImage] "Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Mk 9:41, 13:7, 25:8, 40, Dan 10:13, Ps 105:15, Ro 14:4, Mk 6:11, Is 45:24, 54:17, Re 12:10, 12, Jud 1:9

Reveal Key To Going In The Rapture Pt. 1 1 Thess. 4:15
, 17

Tt 2:13  

Is the New Star Really a Sign of a Messiah for Israel? Rev. 22:16


Dreams & Visions: Natan


What are the strengths and weaknesses of the midtribulational view of the rapture (midtribulationism)?

The Rapture in the Old Testament Pt. 1, 2  Informed Christians 

Lk 12:35 HCSB

1 Pe 1:13

Tt 2:13 

Sower View Post

Serpentdove, the believers in the "first resurrection" were killed/martyred...

I'm still alive. :idunno: I'll be in the first resurrection.

...during the great tribulation per Revelation 20:4,6, what's the difference?

Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raise to life (OT saints, the church [the bride] and tribulation saints). Those raised in the second resurrection are raised for judgment at the Great White Throne.

The fact that they preferred darkness over light implies they make a conscious choice between two recognized, and at least partly understood, alternatives.

Everyone has a choice.  We tasted and saw that the Lord is good (Ps 34:8).  They chose a different path.

Limey_Bob. View Post
Don't you think that you could be merely reading your own biases and presuppositions into the text of a highly poetic book?...

I'm not the author of the article.

Come away ~ Norah Jones

Sower View Post

...[T]here is no Pre-Trib rapture...

Perhaps for you (Re 2:22). :idunno:Maybe you'll do better without your head. :juggle:

Yogi View Post
I would like to point out how Jesus explained it; Matt.13:28, 29- Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. If anything, He is saying that summer may be the real focus....

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees (Lk 21:29b NKJV, emphasis mine).

chtek View Post

Pretty amazing stuff, serpentdove.  I think that you could do equally as well by reading a Harleguin Romance.

I don't read perv' books (Pr 4:23).

I do not agree with your theory…...

I'm not the author of the article.

You have a one in four chance of being right that the rapture will be in spring.

No one knows the day or hour; but, interesting times.

Sower View Post

Are you aware, the rapture/coming of Christ "as a thief"...

To the unbeliever and make-believer--not to us (1 Thess 5:4).

Satire: "Jesus Not Coming Back By The Looks Of It" Admits Vatican Cardinal 2 Co 2:11, 11:14 

Sower View Post

...[T]here is no Pre-trib rapture...
For you--no doubt (Re 2:22). For the wise virgins prepared (Matt. 25:1–13) :straight:--we're outta here (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). :rapture:


Month of Judah

[No] ...Pre-trib rapture...

If you've been serving him, you'll be spared. If you haven't you will go into The Great Tribulation.


Alpha & Omega/Strength of the Covenant

Jester View Post

[Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raise to life (OT saints, the church [the bride] and tribulation saints). Those raised in the second resurrection are raised for judgment at the Great White Throne.] Incorrect. Nothing in the Bible that states that the first resurrection have to do anything with [sic] the rapture or the resurrection of the Saints at any moment. Rather it is the born again. Please read Revelation 20:4 carefully...

The rapture is imminent.


Re 20:4 McGee, MacArthur

The Elite are Building Luxury Bunkers Re 6:15–17


Elon Musk just posted a bunch of pictures of his tunnel and 'Boring' equipment

Revelation 12 Dragon Tail Time

BIN Conference Speaker Kade Hawkins, Founder of Prophecy News Watch, Is “Reporting Prophecy As it Unfolds”

Rapture in the OT

2nicee View Post

I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer.

I'm pre-trib. Tomorrow (roughly) starts the tail drag by the dragon in the sky which John wrote about in Re 12.

chtek View Post

[To another member] ...[Y]ou are wrong in suggesting that it is because of my premillennial perspective. Not so. This is the belief also of many who are not premillennial in their eschatology.

Now ask if he/she believes in a literal 1000 year reign.  We take the bible cerealisly.

buddyt View Post

[Chuck Missler] 

Good teacher. I don't agree with him on all things (which doesn't make him wrong ). Going through his Learn the Bible in 24 Hours Series now. I don't think I'll finish before the rapture.

Muzungu256 View Post

I went to a pre-trib research center on the internet and wow this system is so complicated...

It's not difficult at all. Here's the outline: Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things (Re 1:19).


Revelation Session 1: Introduction Chuck Missler

PlainWord View Post

...[T]here is no time in heaven.

Re 8:1


Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible. By Bob Enyart

PlainWord View Post

Who is smarter, Bob Enyart or Albert Einstein?

Then you are of Einstein but you're not of God (1 Co 1:15). The idea that God is outside of time comes from Greek paganism not the bible.

valiant View Post

[Satan] He is restrained...

"If Satan is bound, the leash is too long." ~ Chuck Smith

valiant View Post

which book of the Bible is Chuck Smith in...

:yawn: He reminded people never to believe a word he said. Be a Berean and check it out for yourself (Ac 17:11).

RickyZ View Post

God can reach out and touch any point in time...



Is the Future Settled or Open? Dr. Lamerson vs. Enyart

PlainWord View Post

Even your own article that you linked us to starts out by saying this:  "Most Christian theologians join countless philosophers of the last 2,500 years in saying that God is outside of time."  So I guess I join those countless Christian theologians and scholars

:yawn: Bandwagon

Odelschwanck View Post

What we really need to be worrying about is King Ghidorah.

trofimus View Post

"While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." 1 Thes 5:3.  Not sure what you are trying to say...

Time of travailing coming.


Revelation Ch 12 Sign Informed Christians

Bladerunner View Post

We are only 3 dimensional.

I agree we'll get more dimensions in our glorified body. What does that have to do with time?

Bladerunner View Post

I really do not understand,,,,,one minute you are saying one thing and then next another.  If God is omni-present... which means he is everywhere at the same time...

Why would you understand? You haven't read the books. The meaning you pour into the omnis and the ims is important. Don't be a Greek pagan.

VCO View Post

God is not a traveler in time, but rather the creator of time...

Time is not a created thing. :dizzy:

valiant View Post

[Satan's world] ...[H]is restraint is by God as He wills.

He's not on his earthly throne where he's supposed to be.  Revelation is about setting things as they should be.

samuel23 View Post

Before God created, there was no matter, no space, and no time.

And then he created a big clock. Re 8:1

Muzungu256 View Post

[Time not a creation] You realize this is very new idea that Bob Enyart is proposing?  Jews don't believe this and they are our forefathers in a sense.

Ad Antiquitatem , Bandwagon

valiant View Post

Pre-trib was unknown in the early church. It was invented by Darby & co.

False (Eph 4:14).


Revelation Session 01 Introduction Chuck Missler

samuel23 View Post

You can look up pre-trib rapture in the encyclopedia and it will tell you that it was created by John Darby around 1830...

Going to have to look back a bit farther than that.

samuel23 View Post

To those who insist on promoting this false pre-trib rapture, I feel so sorry for you folks...

No one is arguing that you are going in the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

samuel23 View Post

Hey SP Read 2Thess 2 and it will tell you that the rapture cannot occur until after the revealing of the Antichrist...

Got that backwards.

Muzungu256 View Post

...[Y]ou got the old testament saints you got the church you got the tribulation saints...

Old Testament Saints (John the Baptist last one [Lk 7:28]), the church/the bride of Christ, tribulation saints.

We, the church, are overcomers (Re 2-3). The tribulation saints will be overcome (Re 13:7a, 9–10a). In other words, they get their heads chopped off, watch the torture of their loves ones chopping off fingers in front of them one by one. They cannot take the mark of the beast or they will be forever lost--no chance of heaven and become a beast (dna manipulation).

...[Y]ou got 3 raptures...

2 comings: 1. in the clouds--the rapture 2. The Second Coming

...[M]any resurrections...

A first resurrection (better [Re 20:6]) and a second resurrection.

Also see:

Re 19:9-10 McGee,  MacArthur

...[S]eparate kingdoms...

Innocence (Ge 1:28), conscience (Ge 3:7), human government (Ge 8:15), Promise (Ge 12:1), law (Ex 19:1), grace (Ac 2:1), kingdom (Re 20:4).

...[A]nd many gospels...

1 Co 15:3-4

Men have always been saved the same way--by grace through faith (see: Hall of Faith [Heb 11]).


2 Ti 1:7

Muzungu256 View Post

Aren't you the same lady who thinks God is bound by time?

Aren't you the one who believes that God is watching a DVD of our lives play out in the sky?

valiant View Post

[Spiritualizes/allagorizes everything] There is a spiritual resurrection...

Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?  What you mean by spiritual resurrection?

Muzungu256 View Post

That is what I also believe.

Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?

valiant View Post

[Do you believe in a physical, literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus?] Yes but in a resurrection glorified body.

Do you believe in a literal Millennial reign by Jesus?

valiant View Post

No, I do not.

valiant View Post

[What you mean by spiritual resurrection?] When He has raised us with Christ and has seated us in Heavenly Places (Eph 2.5-6). Confirmed by Col 3.1.

Does Jesus now have a body?

valiant View Post

As far as we know the answer is yes.

You'd better know. We will be like him. Is replacement theology true?

Israel’s alleged 1967 nuclear ‘doomsday operation’ plan to be revealed

Bladerunner View Post

God gave Satan dominion of the entire earth--only when the 2nd advent happens will Satan be replaced with Jesus.

The Book of Revelation is all about putting everyone where they belong.

valiant View Post

No. the church has not replaced Israel, it is Israel.

Israel is not the church. The church is not Israel. Eph. 3:4–9

valiant View Post

[Israel is not the church. The church is not Israel. Eph. 3:4–9] Well Paul disagrees with you...

I think you mean the Roman Catholic brothel disagrees with me (Jud 11).  

VCO View Post
Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. 
Dr. Adrian Rogers 
Dr. Charles Stanley...

All named above reject the movement of the Holy Spirit in the world today. Hope they are/were indwelled themselves. 1 Co 14:39
samuel23 View Post
Hi SD, they are not rejecting the movement of the Holy Spirit just the things they see in Pentecostalism that are not of God.

The gift is subject to abuse, no doubt (1 Cor. 14:22–26).
PlainWord View Post
We are in the new age called the Millennium.

Who rules and reigns on earth during the Millennium? Rev. 20:1–10

Queue jeopardy theme
PlainWord View Post
The Mosaic Age ended meaning the end of the Jewish nation.

Guess Gabriel didn't know what he was talking about (Lk 1:31–33).
samuel23 View Post
Who is preaching the word to them...

"...2. What John hears (7:2b–3): The fifth angel instructs the four not to harm the earth or sea until God’s servants have been sealed.
B. The sealed (7:4–8)
1. The total (7:4) : One hundred forty-four thousand are sealed.
2. The tribes (7:5–8): Twelve thousand from each of Israel’s twelve tribes are sealed." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 7:2–8). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
valiant View Post
...The mark of the beast was in the Roman 'world'...

Who puts down Rome II?

"...[L]et me quote Dr. Unger from Unger’s Bible Commentary: Zechariah (p. 40):

In line with Daniel’s great prophecies concerning “the times of the Gentiles” (Dan. 2:31–45; 7:2–13) three of the horns in turn and under the punitive hand of God become smiths, while the fourth and last horn is cast down by the world–wide kingdom set up by the returning Christ, coming to dash to pieces His enemies who are at the same time His peoples’ enemies (Ps. 2:1–12). Thus the first horn (Babylon) is cast down by Medo–Persia, the second horn. The second horn (Medo–Persia), accordingly, in turn becomes the first smith. The second horn (Medo–Persia) is cast down by the third horn, and thus becomes the second smith. The third horn (Macedonian Greece), is in turn cast down by the fourth horn (Rome), which thus becomes the third smith. The fourth horn (Rome), the most dreadful of all, does not become a smith but in its revived ten–kingdom form of the last days is destroyed by the fourth smith, the millennial kingdom set up by the returning “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev. 19:16).

..." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Zechariah) (electronic ed., Vol. 32, p. 25). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
valiant View Post
Jesus is reigning over the earth (Acts 2.30-36).

Satan said, “I will give you [Jesus] the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them … if you will bow down and worship me.” Lk 4:5–7. Did Jesus say that he had no authority over the kingdoms?
VCO View Post
You cannot even imagine the horrors of the Great Tribulation that certainly will come.  

Many confuse persecution (par for the course for the Christian) and the Great Tribulation.


A 16 year Boy’s Vision Of The Great Tribulation

Muzungu256 View Post
...[W]hy do Jews agree that Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled...

(2) Second period, 434 years, at which time the Messiah will be crucified (9:26)
(3) Third period, 7 years, a reference to the coming Great Tribulation (9:27) Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Da 9:25–27). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
Muzungu256 View Post
...[I]f someone can explain to me how people still die in the millennial kingdom...

Unbelievers die. It's not heaven.

[I]sn't the millennium God's kingdom?  Why are the unsaved mortals there?

They also get a choice. 
Muzungu256 View Post
...Where does it say Jesus Christ comes back twice?

1 Thess 4:17 (clouds, his feet do not touch the earth, rapture), Zech 14:4 (fault line waiting for a footprint, second coming).
PlainWord View Post
Eph 4:14


What is the preterist view of the end times?
Bookends View Post
[Re:  preterism] Your wooden literal mind wouldn't understand.


The Purifying Hope, Part 3 by John MacArthur

Springtime Expectation

Full text:

When to Watch Informed Christians
popeye View Post
[Marriage figurative of: God’s union with Israel (Is. 54:5), Christ’s union with His Church (Eph. 5:23–32), blaspheming God] I would not advise anyone to answer this. He is here to malign Jesus. Completely unteachable.

Pr 26:4, Mt 12:36
pckts View Post
[See: Revelation Session 01 Introduction Chuck Missler] I don't go off of Chuck's calendar...

He teaches from the scriptures (Eph 4:14). 


Rapture Ready (TOL), (CARM), (CC)