Greek paganism, predestination, will, election, foreknowledge, open view Part 1 of 3

 

[Updated]  D*** asks me to provide evidence re:  Augustine/Greek pagan thinking] …All of my books are packed away (and flooded).  This is an ok summary of Augustine.

 

Anything he picked up from Greek pagans, I reject (along with the writings of:  Aquinas, Luther and Calvin.  We’ve discussed this before (e.g. God outside of time, predestination/will, fate, etc.).

 

The churches not challenging replacement theology led to the slaughter of believers and Jews during WWII (and they’d like to do it all over again)--not on my watch. 

 

Here are some of his ideas about soteriology, too.

 

I’d recommend these writings from Bob Enyart:  Is God Outside of Time? Not according to the Bible., The Plot:  An Overview of the Bible.  He discusses how Greek pagan concepts slipped into the church (Rome :olinger: is not the church).  In fact, they were Dagon worshippers.  Popes still wear the Dagon fish hat.  And, Does God Know Your Entire Future?

 

Also see:

Predestination and Will:  How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?     

Does God Elect Everyone?

 

 

Greek paganism continued Part 2 of 3

 

[Critique of Augustine.  D*** writes.] …You should read the actual truthful account of Augustine's conversion in A.D. 386, truly a miracle and an awesome display of God's grace, mercy, and to His glory.

 

Only God knows his heart.  Unfortunately, superstition remains in churches today. 

 

No fan of Augustine or Romanism.  The RCC :olinger: is the Great Whore of Babylon (Jud 11).  Christians are commanded to come out of her (Re 18:4).

 

The only influence Augustine could of had on Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin would have been very truthful, very scriptural, very biblical.

 

Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Semite.  He wanted Jews to be murdered and he wasn’t shy about saying so. 

 

Kudos to him for the Reformation; but, because the pulpits in Europe did not challenge Romanism and millions of Jews and believers were murdered.   

 

…[F]alse teachers discredit Augustine…

 

:yawn: Eph 4:14

 

Augustine was a false teacher (2 Pe 2:1).  Same with Aquinas, Luther and Calvin.  The Calvinist says I hope God loves you:freak:  The Christian says I know God loves you (Jn 3:16). :Poly:

 

…It is no different than the false teachers discrediting of Paul…

 

:yawn: Eph 4:14

 

Paul was taught by Jesus himself without human beings tainting his doctrine. :juggle:

 

…[A]nd spreading false accusations…

 

:yawn: Eph 4:14

 

He admitted as much, himself.  These concepts:  God is picking on you if you’ve been hit by a lightning bolt; God is outside of time; :dizzy: Elites were chosen before having made a decision for Christ (e.g. fate), etc. are not rooted in scripture. :hammer: They are rooted in Greek pagan thought.  It is for the Christian root out error and return to the truth of the scriptures (Ps. 119:160). :Poly:

 

 

Justification Part 1 of 2

 

[Josheb online has a view similar to D***’s.  He wrote:]  

Josheb View Post

It doesn't say a thing about humans responding.

You do not believe a response is requited to live. I do (Ac 11:18).

I prefer clarity to agreement.” ~ Dennis Prager

The Holy Spirit will not indwell one prior to his repentance (Ac 2:37, 38). He does not have the right to become his child without having received him (Jn 1:12).

D*** makes similar argument.  It is my position that response from men is required to be saved. 

My pastor used to say, “If you get it wrong about Jesus, it doesn’t matter what you get right (Geraci).”  What we do with Jesus decides our eternal destination.

See:

Lordship

D*** asked if that means that God then owes us something.

:yawn: Strawman Eph 4:14

Salvation is a free gift (Eph 2:8-9).

Unity Part 1 of 2

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth (Jn 17:17).

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth (Jn 16:13).

D*** asked us to study Ephesians before coming to his requested meeting.  Unity for D*** means agreeing with his false teachers (2 Pe 2:1).

"Better to be divided by truth than united in error." ~ Adrian Rogers

"Sometimes the church needs division.  Without division they cannot have multiplication." ~ Woodrow Kroll, Jude 16

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them (Eph 5:11). :sherlock:

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you (1 Co 11:19). 

[In support of D***, his wife stated that he studies more than anyone she knows.] Study more (2 Ti 2:15).  

"When you educate without the Holy Spirit, you only get a clever devil." ~ Adrian Rogers

If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." Mk 6:11

Greek paganism continued Part 3 of 3

D*** accuses me of being a false teacher because I reject his favorite Greek pagan thinkers. 

:yawn: Bandwagon (Eph 4:14).

D*** and I have a different idea about what the church is.  For him, the church is organized religion (Rome :olinger: [Jud 11]).  For me, the church is an organic body of believers worldwide.  :straight: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God (Ro 8:13–14). 

D*** accuses me of being similar in nature to those who the apostle Paul. 

:yawn: Non-equivalencies (Eph 4:14).  

Giants

D*** could not find the Nephilim in the bible; therefore, he says that I add to the scriptures.  

:yawn: Eph 4:14

D*** said that he's read the bible 9 times.  Read better (2 Ti 2:15).  Not many of you should become teachers.  My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the severer judgment (Jas 3:1).

[Giants] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them (Ge 6:4).

And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant (2 Sa 31:20).

The Amorites, the Emim, the Zuzim (Zamzummim), the Rephaim, the Nephilim, the Anakim—and who could forget--Goliath (1 Samuel 17:4–7)—all giants. 

See: 

Giants in the OT  

We had discussed the future and Jacob’s Trouble, etc.  And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days (Mt 24:19).

Angels pouring out bowls of judgment—the punishment of sores for anyone having received the mark of the beast (Re 16:2b).  And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image (Re 16:2).

Unity continue Part 2 of 2

[Others in the group discussion] D**, C**** and I agreed to discuss only the Sunday sermon—keep it at milk level.  D*** calls Pastor D** in expressing concern for my returning to the group.       

If D*** did not wish to veer off topic, then he shouldn’t have asked 20 more questions about said topic--he is even lactose intolerant at this point.  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able (1 Co 3:1–2).

[Then, D*** writes an email to our small group and church elders about me (Eph 4:14).] "If a view of the person of God is contrary or at variance with the orthodoxy or accepted doctrine of the church it is by definition a heretical teaching."

:yawn: Eph 4:14

In my opinion D*** is ignorant of the scriptures (ignorance does not mean stupidity; it means to be uninformed on a matter [e.g. biblical illiteracy]).   

Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? Ro 14:3–4. 

Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm. Ps 105:15  

Justification continued Part 2 of 2

D*** stated in a handout:  “Sanctification is a relationship to God…Not a relationship to wisdom.”

God is the source of wisdom (Ex. 36:1, 2).  His law is a source of wisdom (Deut. 4:6).

D*** asks, “How do we love God?...Intimate “know”—not the love believers have for Christ, but the love of and from Christ that he places in their hearts [cites Ro 5:5:  The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us].”

God initiates love .  Men respond to his love. 

John MacArthur wrote:

“…[W]e love the One who first loved us (1 Cor. 16:22; cf. Gal. 5:22; Eph. 3:14–19; 1 John 4:7–10). Spirit who was given. A marvelous testimony to God’s love for us (8:9, 14, 16, 17; John 7:38, 39; 1 Cor. 6:19, 20; 12:13; Eph. 1:18).” MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1701). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

If you don’t love God, :squint: you’re not a Christian. :Plain:

 

Is there a Prince of the Power of the Air?

I had stated:  Satan is the prince of the power of the air (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2 Cor. 4:4).

D*** asked if that meant that God is not in control.

:yawn: Strawman (Eph 4:14).

Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour (1 Pe 5:8).  

Parables

D*** believes that the parable of the sower, the seeds and the soil is the same as the parable of the wheat and that tares and both parables refer to people today.  

I believe that the later parable is for a future date.   

A.      The sower, the seed, and the soil (13:1–8, 18–23)

    B.      The wheat and the thistle (13:24–30, 36–43)

         f.      The harvest is the end of the age (13:39b, emphasis mine).

Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Mt 13:1–42). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

When I asked D*** for his view on eschatology, He replied that he doesn't know and no one can know which view is correct. :chz4brnz: 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Th 5:9). 

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass (Lk 31:36 a,b).