Unbiblical Headship Doctrine

[Pope orders study of women's role in early Church, cheering equality campaigners] "Pope Francis has set up a commission to study the role of women deacons in early Christianity, the Vatican said on Tuesday, raising hopes among equality campaigners that women could one day have a far greater say in the Roman Catholic Church.

The Church bans women from all but a few decision-making roles and the pope and his predecessors have ruled out allowing them to become priests. But advocates said Francis's move might make it easier for a future pope to study whether to allow that.

Deacons, like priests, are ordained ministers, and, as in the priesthood, they must be men. They cannot celebrate Mass but they are allowed to preach and teach in the name of the Church and to baptize and conduct wake and funeral services.

The Church barred women from becoming deacons centuries ago..." Full text: Pope orders study of women's role in early Church, cheering equality campaigners Ge 3:16

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Women & the Vote  

Dirty Old Men

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marke View Post
I believe the Roman Catholic church parted ways with Jesus and true believers many centuries ago. The RCC leaders had many Christians murdered during the infamous inquisitions of the dark ages.

That's why the ages were dark. They kept the word of God from people.

See:

A Lamp In The Dark - The Untold History Of The Bible

intojoy View Post
[Woman] Silence...

Wrong. Look at the original language. I suffer not that woman to teach [trying to bring in doctrine of Diana] (1 Ti 2:12).

Works out nicely for you thought.

My church actually does not permit women to lead in the children's studies--losing half of your gifts.  

Letsargue View Post
Let Your WOMEN Keep SILENCE I-N the Churches.

"Woman, get back in here and make me a sandwich." ~ Fox Mulder, X-Files
Letsargue View Post
For God is Not the Author of Confusion...

Letsargue View Post
[ ]
I'd like to speak with vegetable lasagna. Would that be ok with you?

As a reminder Letsargue is number 47 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category.

NYC Pharmacy Slaps Male Shoppers with 7% ‘Man Tax’ to Fight Gender Inequality Gen. 2:19, 20; Col. 3:10  

patrick jane View Post
Single women have it made.



Pope: Women Banned From Priesthood Forever Dan 11:37, 2 Kin. 22:14

Woman 'gang raped' in Dubai arrested for extra-marital sex 2 Pet. 2:10–22

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Derf View Post
...[I]t's only the widowed women who have it made.



Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications, and prayers night and day [1 Tim. 5:5].

"Now this widow is “a widow indeed”—a real widow. She is “desolate,” that is, she is in need. She is a godly woman, and she prays. She not only prays for the church and the pastor, but she prays for herself and for her need. She has a right to do that. And I want to say that God uses us to help answer such prayers. He makes it clear that when we find a widow like this we are to help her. It is quite lovely when we do things God’s way."

But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth [1 Tim. 5:6].

"But if you go over to a widow’s house and find that she is having a cocktail party, I would say that she is not the widow to help. It does not matter how prominent her son, or her sister, or her brother might be in the church, she is not to be helped." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy/Titus/Philemon) (electronic ed., Vol. 50, p. 71). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"1 Ti 5:5 left alone. See note on v. 3. The form of this Gr. word denotes a permanent condition of being forsaken and left without resources. She is “really” a widow, since there is no family to support her. trusts in God. A continual state or settled attitude of hope in God (cf. 1 Kin. 17:8–16; Jer. 49:11). Since she has no one else, she pleads with God as her only hope.

5:6 dead while she lives. A widow who lives a worldly, immoral, ungodly life may be alive physically, but her lifestyle proves she is unregenerate and spiritually dead (cf. Eph. 2:1)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1868). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

She Was Playing “Hallelujah” In A Train Station Eph. 5:19
Derf View Post
I'm not sure what it has to do with the thread topic, though. She is wearing a headcovering!

She wore a hat.
China's Missing Girls Gen. 2:18, 20

Bill to the Knesset would ban women from taking the Torah to the Wailing Wall Gen. 2:18, 20
Derf View Post
[Care for widows] And don't forget 5:9-10. She has to have been mostly perfect her whole married life, and only having had a single husband all that time.


Mostly Jer 16:2
Derf View Post
Now you got me curious. How does
Jer 16:2 apply to this topic in any way, shape, or form?

Our culture's denial of marriage is a prophetic sign of the end times (Jer. 16:2).


‘God, Rid us of Men!’ Feminist Song Scandalizes Saudi Arabia Gen. 2:19, 20


[One for one theory] Derf quote: …[W]hat if God actually put man in the garden to fail…[?]

Like adding contamination to a petri dish? Eze 28:15 Sin was man’s fault not God’s (Rom. 5:12–19).

He needs him [Adam] to fall…This doesn't try to account for the role of women (apologies to women), specifically of Eve.

She came from him—he was her source (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 5:23). Headship is not biblical.

Adam and Eve needed to be redeemed (Rom. 3:25, 26). One is one not two (Matt. 19:6).

From theology club.

Derf View Post
My point in that thread was to ask the question--was there a reason God gave Adam and Eve such a simple law: Don't eat of that one tree? Seemingly simple to uphold and certainly proven simple to break.

Sin did not originate with God (Jas 1:17).  For anyone who would blame him come the time, it won't fly.

Are you opposed to the idea that women should be under headship of their husbands?

It's not biblical--and I have no dog in this fight (1 Co 7:1, 8, 32–35).

I see that you are saying that Eve needed to be redeemed (which I believe, too) but are women handled differently? 1 Tim 2:15.

Nope.

See:


Dreams & Visions: Natan

If the two-become-one thing applies in any way, here, it would seem that it would make Eve guilty even if she didn't sin.

She did sin (2 Cor. 11:3).  

1 Cor 7:14...If a woman could be made "holy" by her one-ness with a man in redemption...

That doesn't always happen (1 Co 7:15).  Paul was a widower or his wife abandoned him when he became a believer (not too uncommon by the way).

Recommended reading:

'Til Faith Do Us Part by Naomi Schaefer Riley

[2 Cor. 11:3] That verse doesn't say she sinned. It says she was deceived.

She yielded to temptation and sinned (Ge 3:6, 2 Cor. 11:3). This isn't rocket science.

A spouse that leaves is handled differently...

How are they handled? They're not there.

...A daughter that leaves may also be handled differently...

Neither mommy nor daddy saves an individual. One must come to the kingdom on his own.

"The search (7:16–23): The Lord gives Joshua specific instructions for determining who the guilty person is.

(1) The method (7:16–17): The Lord points out the tribe to which the guilty person belongs; then he points out the clan, then the family, and finally the person himself.

(2) The man (7:18–23): Achan is found to be the guilty person.

f. The stoning (7:24–26): Achan and his guilty family members are stoned and their bodies burned." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Jos 7:16–26). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

[She yielded to temptation and sinned (Ge 3:6, 2 Cor. 11:3).] Maybe.

Something about, "she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat" that isn't clear? Ge 3:6
 

To say she sinned based on those verses is putting words into the scriptures.

I have not added, "she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat". Ge 3:6

God gave Adam instruction about the tree of knowledge of good and evil prior to God creating Eve.

Wrong.  She was in him.  They named the animals (Gen. 2:19, 20; Col. 3:10).

If you are saying that Eve sinned, then you are saying that God's commands to Adam apply equally to Eve.

God created ἄνθρωπος [humankind (man and woman)]. Ge 1:27  

We don't know for sure.

You don't know for sure (2 Ti 2:15).

It seems very likely that Adam was a little overzealous in protecting Eve, so that he may have added to the commandment of God the part about not even touching the tree.

If he was so protective of her then why did he stand by allowing her to sin? She added to scripture (Ge 3:3).

Thus it is at least some evidence that Adam delivered the command to Eve.

God gave them (ἄνθρωπος [humankind]) the command (Ge 2:17).

So if God never told Eve not to eat of the tree, is it sin if she disobeyed her husband?

She disobeyed God.  Adam did the same (Ge 3:6).

...[Y]ou must agree with at least some aspect of Adam's headship over Eve even before the transgression.

Women aren't here to make you a sandwich.

"Woman...Make me a sandwich." ~ Fox Mulder

Meaning that headship of some sort is certainly biblical...

If you can sell that to your honey, knock yourself out.

...and part of God's "very good" creation (before the fall).

Very good for you. Not so very good for her.

[Unbelievers leaving marriage] They are allowed to go, and they aren't considered "holy", I suppose.

Allowed? If they're leaving their marriage, they aren't obeying God (Matt. 19:3–9). The abandoned believing spouse is given peace. Ezek. 16:8–14, 1 Co 7:15

[Wicked spouse, children, etc.] I disagree on your second point--no one comes to the kingdom on his own...

Mt 7:14

"...[T]hose children of Achan, not to mention the sheep and oxen and donkeys, were not guilty of Achan's trespass, were they?

They wanted daddy's money.

Daddy's Money ~ Ricochet

"You were, [there] too, I guess. So you named the animals?"

I wasn't there.

"...in that sense, you acknowledge Adam's headship."

Strawman Eph 4:14

[God gave them (ἄνθρωπος [humankind]) the command (Ge 2:17).] Only if you acknowledge that what applies to Adam then applies to the whole human race.

It applied to them.  They were not to eat the apple. You may eat all the apples you'd like.

Once you acknowledge that, which you have, you acknowledge headship of some type.

Headship is not biblical (Gen. 2:19, 20; Col. 3:10).

I'm not Adam...

You're no Adam. You're fallen Adam (Rom. 5:12).

Adam might realistically be in a position to ask all women to make him a sandwich...

He's dead. You're soon to follow (Gen. 2:16, 17, 19; Rom 5:12–14).

...[T]he ability to demand a sandwich, as help in fulfilling the commands of God...

God did not command a husband to demand a sandwich from his wife. God commanded he love his wife (Eph. 5:25–33). She is his "companion" (Mal. 2:14)--“a helper comparable to him” (Gen. 2:18, 20).

Maybe that's why creation is not so very good anymore. We aren't willing to listen to authority...

You aren't her authority. She isn't your authority. Gen. 2:19, 20; Col. 3:10

God, father and mother, husband, king, boss, etc.

She has dominion over the cat (Gen. 1:28).

But you've given an excellent example of what that curious part of Eve's curse must mean [Gen 3:16] and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband...

He's fallen.

...he shall rule over thee...

Now you're living up to all you can be.
 

...[T]heir husbands exercise heavy handedness.

They do (Mal. 2:14, 15).

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this...

Eccl 7:9, Eph 4:14 I have no pony in this race, chicken in the parade, clown in this tent...

Paul does say "let him go", meaning "allow him to go".

He/she's gone (not unusual by the way).

Gone ~ Montgomery Gentry Mt 10:36

[Evil children following evil daddy (Jos 7:16–26)] The donkeys?

The immoral donkeys--the one the wife is in charge of (Matt. 10:31).

Bolivia ~ Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Saxon Hammer View Post
I hope that this is not rude or silly but where is the serpent?

At CARM. Ro 14:4, Ps 105:15

I find no serpent reference at CARM which I had to do an internet search for.

The Google (Bush) couldn't help you?

No, you can’t.

No argument here (Jn 8:37).

Grooming Gang: ‘White Women Are Good for Only One Thing – for People Like Me to F**k and Use as Trash’

cralls View Post

I have an issue that's cropped up with my Church that is bothering me so I thought I would post and get a consensus of others thoughts on this. Apparently we have a guest speaker coming on a Thursday night for a "creative team night". She is a musician who came a while ago and sold CD's at our Church after service and it appears from the intro video that she's coming back to preach? She appears to be preaching anyway. Thoughts?

Headship is not biblical. Unfortunately, churches have handicapped themselves by 50% right off the bat by not allowing female preachers and teachers. It’s a little late in the day to correct all of that as the Lord is returning. Men will answer for their mistreatment of women (1 Pe 4:5). God loves women. His prophecy about them came true (Ge 3:16).

Josheb View Post

To say "headship is not biblical" is one such example of abuse.

:yawn: You're projecting again (Eph 4:14). Because of the false teaching of headship doctrine, women and children have been mistreated for thousands of years. That's all coming to an end. Payday someday (1 Pe 4:5). :noway:

Dutch TV show Raped or Not? set to air   

Reply to JamesTheLesser View Post

I think we should have a show about whether someone is a true Roman Catholic papist or not.

You do. Fox News (Jud 11). :idunno: 

bob1 View Post

...[O]ne carries some personal responsibility not to put themselves in a comprising position.

Of course. She should not dress like a street walker (1 Tim. 2:9) and he should respect women (Eph. 5:25-33).  

bob1 View Post

I was thinking more along the lines of she should not get passed out drunk at the club or some house party.

You think it's ok to violate a woman when she's drunk and passed out? :squint: Ex 20:14 

simplicio View Post

…[Y]ou have managed to connect the headship doctrine to rape, trashy dressing is asking for it.

You’ll need to wait for the short bus. :freak: This one is moving on (Dan 12:10). :mario:

…[E]ither it was done randomly and the two are not connected, or your purpose was to connect the ideas. Which was it?

A few housekeeping items: More smileys for free download

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 SciGuy42 replied

Obviously nobody should pass out drunk anywhere. I myself have done that way too many times to count during my college days, never got raped. While we certainly should try to educate young people about this, we need to educate men that it's totally wrong to take advantage of a drunk person.

cas07 replied

We should be teaching that to men and women...

Because women go around raping so many drunk men. :dizzy:

bob1 replied

[Drunkenness] …[I]t is incredibly stupid and irresponsible for a woman to put herself in that situation of being powerless and oblivious to what is going on around them.

Obviously (Eph 5:18).

It would be like a rich guy flashing cash around a bad neighborhood and then walking in a dark alley alone at night.

Her body is like cash (Pr 31). :idunno:

harryharry replied

The woman was created as a helpmate, not to rule over any man!

The man was not created to rule over any woman (Gen. 2:19, 20; Col. 3:10). :dizzy:

…[Her] desire will be to rule.

False (2 Pe 2:1).  Her desire will be for him (Ge 3:16) :hammer:when it should be for God.  

Hemi View Post

[Multiple accusations of sexual depravity] I can just imagine the South Park version….  I'm sure as powerful as Hillary was there's several girls yet to come forward. It's who wore the pants in that family you know.

Who’s more evil--the one committing the sin or the one aiding and abetting the sin? :reals:Ps 50:18

Unbiblical Headship Doctrine (TOL), (CARM)