Question for non-Calvinists

Simpletruther View Post

Do you think there are people in hell, who might have been saved, if only someone had been more passionate about sharing the gospel?  I wanted to see how many answer yes and no.

Men are responsible for the light shown them.[1] God gave them what they demanded.[2]

[1] Responsibility is increased by: sight (John 9:39-41), privilege (John 15:22, 24), opportunity (Matt. 11:20-24), continuance in sin (Matt. 23:31-35), rejection (Matt. 10:11-15). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson's quick reference topical Bible index (p. 529). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

[2] Neither fallen angels nor unregenerate men have been thrown into the lake of fire yet (Rev. 19:20).

Simpletruther replied
Could some of them have been saved, if only a believer had been more motivated to preach the gospel to them?

Why would a Calvinist be motivated to preach the gospel? They can take the day off. God demanded that they love him and they supposedly do. They have no choice but to be saved. :idunno:

David1701 replied
Of course, Calvinism doesn't teach that God will make sure that the elect are saved, no matter what. It's the "no matter what" part that is the problem. It contains unwritten assumptions that some things that happen were not planned by God

God predetermined that you would say that. Take the day off. He predetermined that, too.

Simpletruther replied
Does this mean vast numbers of people are in heaven simply because they were never given any light, and thus have no responsibility?

Everyone has light. Everyone has responsible before God. Helen Keller got it. :idunno:

Men have internal testimony (Ro 2:15), external testimony (Ps 19:1) and the scriptures (Jas 1:18). They are without excuse (Ro 1:20).

Theo1689 replied
[Why would a Calvinist be motivated to preach the gospel?]

1) Because God is our Lord and He commanded us to.

2) Because Jesus is our Lord and He commanded us to.

3) Because we love God and we want to share this love with others.

4) Because we love Jesus and we want to share this love with others.

5) Because we love the gospel and we want to share this love with others.

6) Because we want to be part of God's work in saving His people.

7) Because the preaching of the gospel is the means by which God draws His people to Himself.

How many reasons do you need?

God forced you to love him and so you do. :freak: He's unhealthy but you love him anyway. :idunno:

David1701 replied
If all you're going to do is mock our beliefs

God predetermined that I'd mock your beliefs. Why are you dissing on God's DVD in the sky? If you don't like this part, then fast forward through it. God predetermined that you would. :freak:

...Why are you still here? You're thinking about not doing what was predetermined for you? That will mess up the space time continuum and you'll thrust us into an alternate quantum reality. I threw in the word quantum to impress you because it was predetermined that I would. :Shimei:

Do you know what Jesus taught about mockers and scoffers?

Do you know what Greek pagans taught?

Theo1689 replied
So seven reasons wasn't [sic] enough for you.

I can't think of anything more worthless than the prayer of a Calvinist (except for that of a Catholic). :olinger:

[A god who demands love] He's not the least bit "unhealthy". But it's interesting to know that you hate God.

Your god, yes. He needs therapy--and you need a restraining order.

Theo1689 View Post

[Multiple responses] That's your problem, not mine...

...That's your problem, not mine.

Case in point.

"Apathy and hatred--pretty much the same thing." ~ Bob Enyart

Theo1689 replied
I can't find "Bob Enyart" in my Bible.  But if that's who you worship…

:yawn: He’s fine servant of the Lord. Don’t agree with him on all things. :juggle:

So much for seeing a future that doesn't exist yet (Ge 22:12, Jer 7:31).


Is the Future Settled or Open? Dr. Lamerson vs. Enyart

Predestination and Will:  How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?     

Does God Elect Everyone?

bruisermiller replied
[Ge 22:12, Jer 7:31] Are you an Open Theist?

The future is not settled.

bruisermiller replied
God had another cause in mind when he declared that people should not burn their children and offer them to Molech.

We do that each and every day in America (Pr 8:36). :reals:

Reply to J*****n

Worldly wisdom fails because...

For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. The New King James Version. (1982). (2 Co 7:10). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Supposes that the message of Christ crucified is stupid keeping in mind that worldly wisdom does not exclude a belief in a God and/or a heaven, what would be appropriate synonyms for stupid in this context?

Believe in the original language means "to be convinced".

10:9 confess … the Lord Jesus. Not a simple acknowledgment that He is God and the Lord of the universe, since even demons acknowledge that to be true (James 2:19). This is the deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person’s own master or sovereign. This phrase includes repenting from sin, trusting in Jesus for salvation, and submitting to Him as Lord. This is the volitional element of faith (see note on 1:16). believe in your heart. See note on 1:16. God has raised Him from the dead. Christ’s resurrection was the supreme validation of His ministry (cf. John 2:18–21). Belief in it is necessary for salvation because it proved that Christ is who He claimed to be and that the Father had accepted His sacrifice in the place of sinners (4:24; cf. Acts 13:32, 33; 1 Pet. 1:3, 4). Without the resurrection, there is no salvation (1 Cor. 15:14–17). See note on 1:4. will be saved. See note on 1:16.

10:10 confession. This Gr. word basically means to say the same thing, or to be in agreement with someone. The person who confesses Jesus as Lord (v. 9), agrees with the Father’s declaration that Jesus is Savior and Lord.

10:11 Quoted from Is. 28:16 and 49:23. This quotation not only demonstrates that salvation by grace through faith alone has always been God’s salvation plan, but that no one—including Gentiles—was ever to be excluded (1:16; 3:21, 22; 2 Pet. 3:9; see also Jon. 3:5).

Gr. Greek

MacArthur, John Jr: The MacArthur Study Bible. electronic ed. Nashville : Word Pub., 1997, c1997, S. Ro 10:9 Full text:  Armor of the Lord

What should our view of non-Christians be?

They are prisoners of war (Jn 8:34).  They claim to have peace; but, they do not (Is 48:22).

Why don’t we as believers get to boast when we get to heaven?

That won’t be our heart.

And that I had faith there by making God obligated to save me?  I heard, I chose to surrender, I chose to trust, I did it.

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Ac 2:37–38).  

We responded (turned (Acts 9:35), repented (Acts 8:22), returned (1 Sam. 7:3).  God gets the glory (Heb 12:2a).

Josheb replied

[It’s his creation. He can do with it what he’d like. Those who need to die are going to die (Rev. 6:16, 17).] Yes, He can do with it what He wants. The question is, "Why would he want to destroy His own creation?

Same reason he wanted to rid the planet of the wicked the last time during Noah’s flood.  You thought God would let this evil go on forever?  Ps 50:21

No one gets elected unless God chooses them. Period.

And God has chosen everyone.  Period (Jn 3:16, 2 Pe 3:9).

Pre-rapture election and post-rapture election is still election.

If you’d like to be one of God’s elect, trust in him (Ac 17:27). :idunno:

The Bible states quite plainly, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit..." (Jn. 15:16).

The offer is available to everyone.  Everyone goes to heaven by choice.  Everyone goes to hell by choice.  God is just (Deut. 32:4).

… We are saved by grace through faith for works…

So are non-elites (2 Pe 2:1).  

Reply to J*****n

[Augustine] …You should read the actual truthful account of Augustine's conversion in A.D. 386, truly a miracle and an awesome display of God's grace, mercy, and to His glory.

Only God knows his heart.  Unfortunately, superstition remains in churches today. 

No fan of Augustine or Romanism.  The RCC is the Great Whore of Babylon (Jud 11).  Christians are commanded to come out of her (Re 18:4).:olinger:

The only influence Augustine could of had on Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin would have been very truthful, very scriptural, very biblical.

Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Semite.  :reals: He wanted Jews to be murdered and he wasn’t shy about saying so. 

Kudos to him for the Reformation; but, because the pulpits in Europe did not challenge Romanism and millions of Jews and believers were murdered.   

…[F]alse teachers discredit Augustine…

Augustine is the false teacher (2 Pe 2:1).  :dizzy: Same with Aquinas, Luther and Calvin.  :hammer:A Calvinist says I hope God loves you.  A Christian says I know God loves you (Jn 3:16).

…It is no different than the false teachers discrediting of Paul…

Paul was taught by Jesus himself without human beings tainting his doctrine. :dizzy:

…[A]nd spreading false accusations…

He admitted as much, himself.   These concepts:  God is picking on you if you’ve been hit by a lightning bolt; God is outside of time; Elites were chosen before having made a decision for Christ (e.g. fate), etc. are not rooted in scripture.  They are rooted in Greek pagan thought.  It is for the Christian root out error and return to the truth of the scriptures (Ps. 119:160). :Poly:

Reply to Deborah Dugger

God is My Heavenly Father who loved me so very much that He had a plan for me before i was even born…

He had a plan for everyone before they were born (Jn 3:16).

Question for non-Calvinists