OSAS

Mark Rome View Post

OSAS people believe that once you are saved, you can never lose it...

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Heb 10:26–31).

See:

The love of the Father is not in you and your faith is dead  Jerry Toney

Rejoran View Post

OSAS folk have told me that if a person turns their back on God they were never saved to begin with.

They were a false convert (1 Jn 2:19).

They both seem to believe the same thing except one believes in getting saved and the other believes in being one of the elect.

Ever notice that they are always part of the elect? :freak: 2 Pe 2:1

Neither is right because then no one can have assurance of salvation until they die faithful never having turned their back on God.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other (1 Jn 3:14).

These things I write to you, that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God (1 Jn 5:13).

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Ro 8:16).

Rejoran View Post

1 Jn 2:18 That was referring to an antichrist.

A false convert is an antichrist (without Christ). One is in Christ or he is not. You can’t be kind of sort of pregnant and you can’t be kind of sort of a Christian.

[Ever notice that they are always part of the elect? 2 Pe 2:1] Nope.

A Calvinist thinks it’s impossible that they are not saved. They believe that they are God’s elect. I would ask--based on what?

Baptists like Charles Stanley preach to their congregation that when you are lying, cheating, stealing (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10)--that you are not acting in your nature. I’m not sure why he speaks to everyone in his church as if they are saved. When you are: lying, cheating stealing you are acting in your nature—you’re a devil (Jn 8:44). The Christian does not live habitually in sin (1 Jn 3:9). He has passed from death to life (1 Jn 3:14).

So if a loving brother or sister later turns their back on God, were they a true convert?

You’re calling them loving—again--based on what? Loving people don’t stab Jesus in the back (1 Ti 1:19).

See:

Calvinism  

Heretics, apostates and false disciples

If not, then that wasn't an assurance either.

I’m not sure why you’re running around with assurance because someone told you that you are “once saved always saved”. The bible doesn’t say that. Baptists say that. If the Holy Spirit has not told you that you’re saved (Ro 8:16), then examine yourself to see if you’re in the faith (2 Co 13:5).

…Under OSAS, any such claim that the Spirit Himself bore witness with their spirit is then invalidated once they turn their back on God.

Christians don’t turn their back on God (Phil 1:6). :dizzy:

When a dad crosses the street and holds his child’s hand does he leave it up to the child to hold on tight enough to make it to the other side? No, he does the holding (1 Pe 1:5).

Come to him (Jn 6:37).          

God doesn't force anyone to the other side of the street.

:yawn: Strawman (Eph 4:14).

When you are in Christ, he will see you safely through to the end (Is 43:2).

newbirth View Post

When you are in Christ you have to abide there faithfully...and he will see you safely through.

Of course. Abide in him.

See:

Abide in Him  

marke View Post

When the righteous fall, what happens to their eternal security?

What do you think? Heb 10:26 

Philippians View Post

…[C]an the Calvinist really claim that they can willfully sin?

They can claim anything they want (Jud 4). :blabla: Doesn’t mean they’re :dizzy: going to heaven (2 Pe 2:1).  :burnlib:

marke View Post

If we sin willfully by turning away from the truth, then we should accept the real possibility that we were never saved to begin with, no matter why we may have thought we were saved.

Yeppers.

Some people think they cannot willfully sin but that is putting too much confidence in one's own estimation of one's own steadfast relationship with God.

We don't have to sin (Jn 8:36). Jesus didn't come to die for us because he had nothing better to do.

Election is settled from before the foundation of the world.

Election is settled when you receive the Lord as your savior (Jn 1:12).

See:

Predestination and Will:  How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?     

marke View Post

Isa. 55:6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near.

Is this command only for Christians who have been washed in the blood? Is it to be assumed that non-Christians cannot seek the Lord for any reason at any time?

Christians have already sought the Lord. They walk in the spirit (Ro 8:14). :straight: This is for the straggler--the one who has not yet come to Christ.

My spirit shall not always strive with man (Ge 6:3).

…[F]ake Christians can and often do fall away and end up in hell, but their religion was not real to begin with. The author of the book of Hebrews emphasizes the need for all of us to examine ourselves to see if we really are saved, which is the same thing as saying we all need to give diligence to make our calling and election sure. All of us. No exceptions.

However, in 2 Peter 1:10, God does not tell us to give diligence to get saved, or to stay saved, but to insure that we really did get saved.

That’s right.  JD Farag explains it as ABC:  Admit you’re a sinner in need of a Savior.  Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Confess him as Lord.

“You can’t have a come in savior and a stay out Lord.” ~ Adrian Rogers   

Reply to Scarbrough

Guess you’ll need Hebrews 10:26-27 to go away.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries (Heb 10:26–27).  

Reply to Team Jesus  

Only God truly knows our hearts and if we truly believe or not.

That’s true and we see their fruits (Mt 7:20). :sherlock:  If one lives like a devil his whole life, he has no reason to believe that he’s saved (Ro 8:14). :burnlib:

Bob Carabbio View Post

I'm open on the subject.  Personally, I think that "OSAS" (or it's other "when you're in, you're in") versions go too far theologically.  But, the polar opposite (one strike and you're out) goes way too far in the opposite direction.

If one’s conversion was genuine, then he is kept by God (1 Pe 1:5).

However, it seems foolish to try to define how little we have to do with God, and still keep our fire insurance.

If one sees salvation as mere fire insurance, then he is most likely a false convert (Ro 8:14). 

CrowCross View Post

Every Christian sins willfully after they have been saved. The way you are using this verse seems to indicate no one is saved.

1 Jn 3:9 :dizzy:

Dave View Post

Do you believe "once condemned always condemned"?

Everyone is condemned (2 Thess 2:10). :hammer: Get yourself a Savior (Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13).

Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).
 

Dave View Post

[I]t's not how little one must do to keep fire insurance, but rather how much was done to secure salvation.

You’re lead by the spirit or you’re not (Ro 8:14). :dizzy: Your works prove who you are (Mt 7:20).
:sherlock: 

greatdivide46 replied

I've tried and tried to believe once saved always saved…

Why?  Is there a Baptist among your acquaintances?

Here’s a believer: 

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law (Ga 5:22–23).

Here’s a make-believer:

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God (Ga 5:19–21).

This isn’t rocket science. 

greatdivide46 replied

…I'm constantly reading in the Bible believers being told to not forsake what they've believed and return to their former lifestyle.

A Christian will not return to his former lifestyle (2 Co 5:17).

If OSAS were true warnings such as that would be unnecessary.

If one returns to his former lifestyle, then his conversion was false.  He should examine himself (2 Co 13:5).  

CrowCross View Post

You keep on sinning which means you are not saved.

:yawn: Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach: 

greatdivide46 View Post

If OSAS were really true, one couldn't say, "A Christian will not return to his former lifestyle." Instead one would say a Christian CANNOT return to his former lifestyle.

Will not and cannot. He is a new creation (2 Co 5:17, 1 Jn 3:9).

If OSAS were really true, the Book of Hebrews would be unnecessary.

J. Vernon McGee said that the only life that God gives is eternal life. If one returns to his lifestyle of sin, his conversion was false (2 Pe 2:22).

The author’s concern (6:4–8): He warns in regard to a dreadful situation.
1. The impossibility in this situation (6:4–6)
a. The who (6:4b–5): Those who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit and have tasted of God’s Word.
b. The what (6:6a): After experiencing this, they turn from God.
c. The why (6:4a, 6b): These people cannot be brought back to repentance, for they crucify the Son of God all over again. Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Heb 6:4–8). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Dave View Post

[Sin unto death]

If one has committed a sin unto death, he’ll know because :dead: he’s dead. :Plain:

Dave View Post

It's rather sad that you've levied the accusation at me and then don't even bother to try to correct me...

Pr 26:4 :mario: 

Reply to inertia

Apostates have the knowledge, but don't repent and deliberately reject the truth…

An apostate had the truth and walked away.

See:

Heretics, apostates and false disciples  

inertia View Post

Paul got it right…Romans 7: 14-25.

Yes.

Paul has learned that any attempt to keep the law leads to carnality (7:14–23). Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ro 7:14–23). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Enyart described it like a man putting a post-it note on his visor reminding him not the cheat on his wife:  “Remember—don’t cheat on your wife today.” :hobo:

He is reminded that God has a law about not committing adultery.  He’s carnal.

The spirit-led man doesn’t cheat on his wife because he loves his God and he loves her :straight:(the difference between law and grace). Mk 12:33

inertia View Post


...and in Romans 10: 3-38 too?

Yes.

 2. Works without faith (10:3b)


II. THE SOURCE OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:4–5)
A. It is found in Christ (10:4) .
B. It was foretold by Moses (Lev. 18:5) (10:5) .


III. THE AVAILABILITY OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:6–8)
A. Negative (10:6–7): One need not search the heavens or descend into the deep to find it.
B. Positive (10:8) : It is, through Christ, as near as one’s mouth and heart! Moses predicted this in Deuteronomy 30:12–14.


IV. THE RECEPTION OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:9–10): Both one’s heart and mouth are involved.
A. It is conceived in the heart (10:9b–10a).
B. It is confirmed by the mouth (10:9a, 10b).


V. THE SCOPE OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:11–13)
A. It is impartial (10:11–12): It does not distinguish between Jews and Gentiles.
B. It is universal (10:13) : Anyone calling on the name of the Lord will be saved.


VI. THE PRESENTATION OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:14–15): Paul presents a compelling case for faithful witnessing.
A. A sinner must call on the Lord to be saved (10:14a).
B. A sinner must believe in order to call (10:14b).
C. A sinner must hear in order to believe (10:14c–15): Isaiah described the results: “How beautiful … are the feet of those who bring good news” (Isa. 52:7).


VII. THE REJECTION OF GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS (10:16–21)
A. Israel has heard the Good News (10:18) : Paul proves this by quoting from Psalm 19:4.
B. Israel has refused to heed the Good News (10:16–17, 19–21).
1. Isaiah predicted this (10:16–17, 20–21): See Isaiah 53:1; 65:1–2.
2. Moses predicted this (10:19) : See Deuteronomy 32:21.


Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ro 10:2–19). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

inertia View Post

Humans are sinful. Paul was not different.

Paul didn’t pass from death to life (1 Jn 3:14).  He never received God’s grace? Mt 1:21

inertia View Post

Paul was saved the same way that everyone else is saved...

He was going one way. Stopped, turned and went another way (Acts 9:1–19, 1 Jn 3:9).  

Sons don’t live like pigs (Jn 8:44).

jeremiah1five View Post

I prefer to address it as once a son always a son or once a daughter always a daughter.  This is true:  no one can un-son (or un-daughter) themselves from the Father…

What if his so-called son or so-called daughter stabs him in the back? Was his/her conversion genuine? Don’t confuse a pig for a son.

J. Vernon McGee taught about the prodigal son--and the prodigal pig. One cleaned up and went up to the Father’s house. The other remained in the mud (Mt 7:20). Sons belong in the Father's house and pigs belong in the mud.

…[T]hat provided the seed towards their birth.

Is there a difference between a heart that cries out Abba Father :straight:and the heart that cries out give me a whore for sexual pleasure? Eze 36:26  

This is true: there are no children of God in hell.

Hell was created for Satan (Matt. 25:41) and those who follow him (Rom. 2:8, 9).

Repeat after me:  once a son always a son.

Sons don’t live like pigs (Jn 8:44). 

inertia View Post

[Paul] “[A]fter his change of mind (repentance)…”

Does your gospel include repentance or do you sort of skip over that part? :Shimei: 2 Pe 2:1

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Mt 4:17
 

inertia View Post

Do you believe Jesus' gospel?

Yep. :thumb:

"You cannot have a 'come in Savior' and a 'stay out Lord' (Ro 14:9)." ~ Adrian Rogers 

inertia View Post

Great! Then we agree… 

Hope so.  :idunno: Many reject Christ’s Lordship.  They’re going to be in for a big surprise (Mt 7:23). :burnlib:

To Know Him Was To Love Him ~ Data, Star Trek the Next Generation

[GotQuestions.org quote] “…When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26-27; James 2:26). "  

Yeppers. :thumb:  And if that’s not happening, you’ve got a devil on your hands.

Morefish replied

Jesus won't lose even one of us who belong to Him.

First, you have to belong to him (2 Co 13:5). 

OSAS