OSAS or Elect?

Mark Rome View Post

OSAS people believe that once you are saved, you can never lose it...

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Heb 10:26–31).

See:

The love of the Father is not in you and your faith is dead  Jerry Toney

Rejoran View Post

OSAS folk have told me that if a person turns their back on God they were never saved to begin with.

They were a false convert (1 Jn 2:19).

They both seem to believe the same thing except one believes in getting saved and the other believes in being one of the elect.

Ever notice that they are always part of the elect? :freak: 2 Pe 2:1

Neither is right because then no one can have assurance of salvation until they die faithful never having turned their back on God.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other (1 Jn 3:14).

These things I write to you, that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God (1 Jn 5:13).

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Ro 8:16).

Rejoran View Post

1 Jn 2:18 That was referring to an antichrist.

A false convert is an antichrist (without Christ). One is in Christ or he is not. You can’t be kind of sort of pregnant and you can’t be kind of sort of a Christian.

[Ever notice that they are always part of the elect? 2 Pe 2:1] Nope.

A Calvinist thinks it’s impossible that they are not saved. They believe that they are God’s elect. I would ask--based on what?

Baptists like Charles Stanley preach to their congregation that when you are lying, cheating, stealing (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10)--that you are not acting in your nature. I’m not sure why he speaks to everyone in his church as if they are saved. When you are: lying, cheating stealing you are acting in your nature—you’re a devil (Jn 8:44). The Christian does not live habitually in sin (1 Jn 3:9). He has passed from death to life (1 Jn 3:14).

So if a loving brother or sister later turns their back on God, were they a true convert?

You’re calling them loving—again--based on what? Loving people don’t stab Jesus in the back (1 Ti 1:19).

See:

Heretics, apostates and false disciples

If not, then that wasn't an assurance either.

I’m not sure why you’re running around with assurance because someone told you that you are “once saved always saved”. The bible doesn’t say that. Baptists say that. If the Holy Spirit has not told you that you’re saved (Ro 8:16), then examine yourself to see if you’re in the faith (2 Co 13:5).

…Under OSAS, any such claim that the Spirit Himself bore witness with their spirit is then invalidated once they turn their back on God.

Christians don’t turn their back on God (Phil 1:6). :dizzy:

When a dad crosses the street and holds his child’s hand does he leave it up to the child to hold on tight enough to make it to the other side? No, he does the holding (1 Pe 1:5).

Come to him (Jn 6:37).          

God doesn't force anyone to the other side of the street.

:yawn: Strawman (Eph 4:14).

When you are in Christ, he will see you safely through to the end (Is 43:2).

newbirth View Post

When you are in Christ you have to abide there faithfully...and he will see you safely through.

Of course. Abide in him.

See:

Abide in Him  

marke View Post

When the righteous fall, what happens to their eternal security?

What do you think? Heb 10:26 

Philippians View Post

…[C]an the Calvinist really claim that they can "willfully" sin?

They can claim anything they want (Jud 4). :blabla: Doesn’t mean they’re :dizzy: going to heaven (2 Pe 2:1).  :burnlib:

marke View Post

If we sin willfully by turning away from the truth, then we should accept the real possibility that we were never saved to begin with, no matter why we may have thought we were saved.

Yeppers.

Some people think they cannot willfully sin but that is putting too much confidence in one's own estimation of one's own steadfast relationship with God.

We don't have to sin (Jn 8:36). Jesus didn't come to die for us because he had nothing better to do.

Election is settled from before the foundation of the world.

Election is settled when you receive the Lord as your savior (Jn 1:12).

See:

Predestination and Will:  How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?     

 

 OSAS or Elect?